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Message
re: Bundy/BLM: Sheriff: "Feds Strategizing for Raid"
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:25 am to dante
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:25 am to dante
quote:Can some address this please?
Secondly, why has the BLM not gone through the proper legal channels and filed a lien against the Bundy assets, instead of stealing private property. If he owed the IRS $1million dollars, would they have stolen his cows?
2
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:27 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
You're arguing reasons for the protests.
No.
I'm.
Not.
I'm arguing against violence. Bundy threatened violence, and when the feds take him up on it, they will win. Yet all these yahoos don't care about right and wrong, they just want to play army - until shite gets hot. Then they will evaporate.
The problem Bundy is facing is that if he took the non-violent route and submitted to the penalty of law as the CR protesters did, no one would care because BUNDY HAS NO CLAIM.
Does it matter to you whether or not Bundy is right or wrong?
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:28 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
Bundy might be wrong as rain
I wonder how many times the rich and powerful have legally seized land and water rights out west. It wouldn't surprise me one whit if Bundy's own family had done the same.
We have a Supreme Court justice who belonged to a group that believes the US should give the SW back to it's rightful owner Mexico.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:31 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
BUNDY HAS NO CLAIM.
Not even under equitable principles?
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:32 am to WildTchoupitoulas
Bundy has all the rights in the world to stage a peacefull protest but he and his band of malcontents don't have the right to take up arms against the US Government. Nobody likes paying taxes and everyone would like free land but that is not the way it works in the USA. 
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:34 am to boxcar willie
quote:
but he and his band of malcontents don't have the right to take up arms against the King George III
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:36 am to dante
quote:
re: Bundy/BLM: Sheriff: "Feds Strategizing for Raid"
Well... Good Friday is fast approaching. Seems the feds do their best work on this day.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:39 am to WildTchoupitoulas
Are you seriously comparing the non-violent civil disobedience of the Civil Rights movement with threats of violence
Sorry to hear you missed the 60's
Sorry to hear you missed the 60's
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:39 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Bundy threatened violence, and when the feds take him up on it, they will win. Yet all these yahoos don't care about right and wrong, they just want to play army - until shite gets hot. Then they will evaporate.
Or they run out of Natty Light, the official beer of militiamen everywhere.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:44 am to Old Hellen Yeller
quote:
I'll not pay taxes fees or fines next year and dare them to come get me.
Citizens bitch, and the govt backs down again.
Like Arlo sang at the last part of Alice's Restaurant, we might just build a movement.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:45 am to WildTchoupitoulas
I understand that you're saying civil rights activists did things their way and it was peaceful. The Bundy guy is doing it his way. I see his cause as making plenty of sense.
States like Utah have clauses within their state constitutions (or other agreements with the Feds at the time of admission to the Union) that allow them to buy back the land from the feds. The Nevada constitution gave away their rights to the land. The BLM was selling lands back to various states very slowly but stopped. Several Presidents have issued Executive orders to grab land. In 2010, the Obama Administration had a memo leaked that described how Obama could issue an EO to grab additional millions in acreage using Teddy Roosevelt's Antiquities Act of 1906.
The Bundy ranch situation is about the spirit of the law. The spirit of the U.S. Constitution is to LIMIT federal powers. The climate for several decades has been to expand the feds power. The states that have tried to buy back their land from the feds will use this case to file multiple lawsuits.
Mr. Bundy has said multiple times that he is more than willing to pay the state or the county. He has done so in the past. He has not been spending his fees. He has been holding on to these fees for this point in time. If you read the court documents Mr. Bundy has not once stated that he refused to pay or was unable to pay. He has always stated that he will not pay the feds. He was very calculated in what he did and in what he is doing now. The issue of grazing rights, particularly with regards to the federal ownership of wastelands such as these has been an ongoing issue for decades. Bundy has been waiting for his opportunity to really go after this issue.
Federal authority is to be questioned more than it is to be accepted.
States like Utah have clauses within their state constitutions (or other agreements with the Feds at the time of admission to the Union) that allow them to buy back the land from the feds. The Nevada constitution gave away their rights to the land. The BLM was selling lands back to various states very slowly but stopped. Several Presidents have issued Executive orders to grab land. In 2010, the Obama Administration had a memo leaked that described how Obama could issue an EO to grab additional millions in acreage using Teddy Roosevelt's Antiquities Act of 1906.
The Bundy ranch situation is about the spirit of the law. The spirit of the U.S. Constitution is to LIMIT federal powers. The climate for several decades has been to expand the feds power. The states that have tried to buy back their land from the feds will use this case to file multiple lawsuits.
Mr. Bundy has said multiple times that he is more than willing to pay the state or the county. He has done so in the past. He has not been spending his fees. He has been holding on to these fees for this point in time. If you read the court documents Mr. Bundy has not once stated that he refused to pay or was unable to pay. He has always stated that he will not pay the feds. He was very calculated in what he did and in what he is doing now. The issue of grazing rights, particularly with regards to the federal ownership of wastelands such as these has been an ongoing issue for decades. Bundy has been waiting for his opportunity to really go after this issue.
Federal authority is to be questioned more than it is to be accepted.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:45 am to boxcar willie
quote:
Bundy has all the rights in the world to stage a peacefull protest but he and his band of malcontents don't have the right to take up arms against the US Government.
Their protest was peaceful.
Fail again.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:46 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Does it matter to you whether or not Bundy is right or wrong?
As far as to my argument that he has a right to protest, no. Bundy could likely end up in jail for whatever reason but for me that doesn't mean he did anything wrong by protesting.
I understand your opposition to the violence threat. I'm not too comfortable with that myself but apparently Bundy is and if he and those that believe in what he is doing are willing to put their life on the line, that's their choice.
Like I said, history will decide if Bundy becomes a hero or a goat but I hope to hell that history agrees he had the right to protest. If not, we're dead as a freedom loving nation.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:47 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Does it matter to you whether or not Bundy is right or wrong?
The real problem is that our government stopped caring about right/wrong a long time ago. Eventually people reach a tipping point against perceived bias, regardless of how true/false it is. When both sides stop caring, the law gets thrown out the window. His attitude is a reflection on that.
In short, I'm not sure if it's relevant anymore.
This post was edited on 4/15/14 at 9:50 am
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:48 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:Yet another that doesn't get it. If you think this is about cows, you're missing the boat.
Does it matter to you whether or not Bundy is right or wrong?
quote:
Certainly, Bundy is a flawed person and not completely in the right. But, he doesn't have to be. Being a complacent law-abiding citizen isn't what he represents.
What he does represent is someone brave (or stupid) enough to be a shining symbol of saying "enough is enough" to the bullies in our government that treats a fair number of its citizens pretty damn shabbily.
That is why he's garnering such wide support. This incident clearly shows just how much many are craving that brave out-front declaration of "enough is enough".
This post was edited on 4/15/14 at 9:53 am
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:50 am to Lsut81
I read the OP as "Feds Strategizing for Reid"
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:52 am to Taxing Authority
quote:Exactly. This is about state vs federal. It's about environmental activists using the federal government to steal land from the citizens.
f you think this is about cows, you're missing the boat
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:53 am to deltaland
quote:Probably closer to the truth.
I read the OP as "Feds Strategizing for Reid"
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:55 am to dante
quote:
It's about environmental activists using the federal government to steal land from the citizens.
It could be about rich interests using politicians that use environmental activists using the federal government to steal land and water rights from citizens.
Posted on 4/15/14 at 9:55 am to boxcar willie
quote:
Bundy has all the rights in the world to stage a peacefull protest but he and his band of malcontents don't have the right to take up arms against the US Government. Nobody likes paying taxes and everyone would like free land but that is not the way it works in the USA.
I'll ignore most of what you say here because basically you are saying "we are a nation of laws."
I'll ask you a question that Rex would not answer. There are several states that now require voters to have valid photo identification to vote. Are you in support of this law? If not, how will you go about opposing it if the party that's against it is not in control in Washington?
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