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Started By
Message
re: Brown family autopsy results
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:57 am to Reubaltaich
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:57 am to Reubaltaich
quote:
that is why LEOs and military are trained to continue to shot until the assailant is fully neutralized.
So until he's dead?
Look I'm not trying to take sides here, but am I crazy in thinking that 3 shots would have been enough to offset MB's large size so that the officer would be able to finish subduing him using his hands, tazer, baton, etc and not have to deliver the final kill shot? I mean, aren't they trained in neutralizing threats without having to totally kill them?
Just my 2 cents.
5
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:58 am to Old Hellen Yeller
quote:Actually that may or may not be true.
He shot the kid 6 fricking times.
Amazingly Baden reached his conclusion of 6 separate GSWs despite the fact he did not have access to X-ray results from the original examination. Nor did he have access to Brown's clothing.
Presumably any bullets were removed as evidence during the original examination.
X-rays and clothing would be very important in determining projectile path. In other words, some entry points may have actually been reentry wounds. He alluded to reentries in his comments.
Apparently Baden will attend a presser with Crump later today, and possibly clear some of that up.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 6:59 am to Rex
Woah, did Rex just objectively examine evidence and come to a rational conclusion? I'm starting to doubt myself now.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:01 am to onmymedicalgrind
I don't know if things have changed in the many years since my brother-in-law was with the state police, but he told me they never shoot someone in the leg (for instance) to stop them. They shoot to kill. They are trained to not fire unless their life is in danger, and if that is the case they shoot to kill. It always bothered me because I thought a shot to the kneecap might be just as effective at stopping a threat but he said no, they do not do that.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:06 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
So until he's dead?
No, until he is neutralized. If he ceases to be a threat, you cease fire.
quote:
Look I'm not trying to take sides here, but am I crazy in thinking that 3 shots would have been enough to offset MB's large size...
There is no way from a distance of twenty or more feet I am going to know how effective my shots are. The clearest indication is that the individual is no longer demonstrating a threat.
quote:
...so that the officer would be able to finish subduing him using his hands, tazer, baton, etc and not have to deliver the final kill shot? I mean, aren't they trained in neutralizing threats without having to totally kill them?
Sorry, but if I am placed in a position to use deadly force, then I am not transitioning to any other method of force until I am sure it is safe. Absolutely, positively sure. This is not a movie, this is real life.
And this all took place in a matter of (I would estimate) less than three seconds. Not a lot of time to make decisions. He followed his training at that point.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:09 am to Wolfhound45
Ehh we can agree to disagree 
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:10 am to onmymedicalgrind
Yeah, you are crazy. The old saying "don't pull a gun unless you intend to use it" applies here. You don't shoot to wound and then taze if the threat is still a threat. Frankly, that's sheer lunacy.
This post was edited on 8/18/14 at 7:11 am
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:11 am to onmymedicalgrind
It's a lot harder to deescalate the amount of force being used than it is to escalate it. We can argue about whether he should have drawn his weapon in the first place, but once you start firing, you make sure the target is down.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:13 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Ehh we can agree to disagree
My friend, we cannot. When the adrenaline kicks in training immediately takes over. He has spent hours on a range and has been trained extensively on threat detection. I do not want that young man dead, but he contributed to his own demise.
I look at this situation in the same fashion I look at you as a medical professional. For a myriad of reasons you may misdiagnose a disease and there will be Monday morning quarterbacks all harping away at what you should have done.
Just the nature of the beast.
But I will still throw you one...
ETA: What is more troubling to me is that a young man could be angry enough to turn from fleeing and physically confront a police officer in broad day light. The strong arm robbery and his own death portray a very angry, troubled young man. And that truly breaks my heart. That a human being can reach that point of despair.
This post was edited on 8/18/14 at 7:18 am
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:14 am to Tiguar
quote:
Yeah, you are crazy. The old saying "don't pull a gun unless you intend to use it" applies here. You don't shoot to wound and then taze if the threat is still a threat. Frankly, that's sheer lunacy.
Right. It's so easy for people to play Monday morning QB with a situation like this, but when it's your safety at risk, you're gonna be singing a different tune.
Like others have said, this isn't a movie. Shite like this happens in a blur.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:18 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
We can argue about whether he should have drawn his weapon
I think this is definitely a discussion worth having.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:21 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
I think this is definitely a discussion worth having.
That is a worthy point of discussion. I would anticipate Officer Wilson drew his weapon simply because of the size of Mike Brown and the fact Mike had turned to confront him. If he drew before then (highly unlikely but possible) then there is a very valid point. An unarmed, fleeing suspect does not warrant deadly force (e.g. his weapon should have remained holstered).
This post was edited on 8/18/14 at 7:23 am
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:25 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
I do not want that young man dead, but he contributed to his own demise.
No argument here.
quote:
For a myriad of reasons you may misdiagnose a disease and there will be Monday morning quarterbacks all harping away at what you should have done.
Dude, no way man I'm perfect
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:26 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
It's a lot harder to deescalate the amount of force being used than it is to escalate it.
So it's harder to stop shooting than it is to start shooting?
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:27 am to Wtodd
quote:
So it's harder to stop shooting than it is to start shooting?
Yes
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:27 am to Wolfhound45
It's sad that thus young man had his life taken. However, the evidence that continues to come to light suggests that the result was likely of his own choosing, through his actions.
Sad to see.
Sad to see.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:32 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Yes
This.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:33 am to Wolfhound45
An unarmed, fleeing suspect does not warrant deadly force (e.g. his weapon should have remained holstered).
First time I saw the police in Miami get out of a patrol car, both officers had their weapons drawn.
Was back in 79, so I do not know if they still have this method of operation or not.
First time I saw the police in Miami get out of a patrol car, both officers had their weapons drawn.
Was back in 79, so I do not know if they still have this method of operation or not.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:35 am to themunch
quote:
An unarmed, fleeing suspect does not warrant deadly force (e.g. his weapon should have remained holstered).
Good thing that doesn't apply to this situation ....
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:37 am to themunch
quote:
First time I saw the police in Miami get out of a patrol car, both officers had their weapons drawn.
Was back in 79, so I do not know if they still have this method of operation or not.
Need more context than that. I am not a LEO. Just trained professionaly to use a weapon and understand the implications of the use of deadly force.
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