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Message
re: Breaking: Jan. 6 panel unveils criminal referral against Donald Trump and associates
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:03 pm to davyjones
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:03 pm to davyjones
quote:
Because I was gonna say only those with litigation experience would understand the wide assortment of possibilities and avenues that the discovery process often yields
In ordinary civil litigation? Sure
In something as politically charged as this?
Discovery is practically meaningless for this. quote:
You don’t think there’s any discoverable materials and perhaps even possibly depositions lingering about out there that the government side would very much dislike being disclosed to the heretofore hypothetical Trump side?
I’d love to hear what it was. Remember, nothing on the merits of whether or not there was any impropriety in the election is relevant to whether Trump allegedly fomented any insurrection (or whatever the charge may be).
He could be 100% right on the merits of the election and still have incited insurrection, etc. I don’t agree with those charges at all (to the extent DOJ brings them), but people thinking it’ll be some avenue for Trump to present evidence of election fraud are very wrong.
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 3:05 pm
2
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:06 pm to cajunangelle
quote:
And I live in a fairy forest full of pixie's and magic dust. And there is a secret mil op gonna get all the bad guys any delta moment now. And I am the Princess of Glorioso Islands and will return shortly to send my Army.
DOJ has everything the committee has.
Are they perhaps waiting on the committee to wrap up in order to make the political theater line up? Maybe.
But nothing the committee does or did actually impacts DOJ. If theyre going to charge him, DOJ made that decision many months if not years ago.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:07 pm to jimmy the leg
Lol nice gifmeme Jim. That shite’s crucial yo.
Yes, in the unlikely event that the DOJ were to heed these referrals and thus be prompted to put a case of the Trump, it’s both reasonable to expect and actually probable that the evidentiary basis would mirror that of the committee gathering. If there were alternative bases for the same charges, the logical conclusion is that the committee would already been tipped off to exploring those avenues.
It would even be largely predicated upon transcripts of testimony of individuals having been previously subpoenaed before the committee. Hell man, it’s so comical and unrealistic that I can’t bring myself to pay it too much serious attention.
Yes, in the unlikely event that the DOJ were to heed these referrals and thus be prompted to put a case of the Trump, it’s both reasonable to expect and actually probable that the evidentiary basis would mirror that of the committee gathering. If there were alternative bases for the same charges, the logical conclusion is that the committee would already been tipped off to exploring those avenues.
It would even be largely predicated upon transcripts of testimony of individuals having been previously subpoenaed before the committee. Hell man, it’s so comical and unrealistic that I can’t bring myself to pay it too much serious attention.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:09 pm to jimmy the leg
Yes. DOJ has decided a long time ago that they’ll bring charges, or ensure that some locale does.
You actually think they were waiting for the committee to recommend it?
You actually think they were waiting for the committee to recommend it?
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:11 pm to Indefatigable
no joke the DOJ and the J6 fake committee are so close they are one.
if you are saying the fake committee is announcing this to take some heat off of the DOJ to arrest Trump-duh.
if you are saying it will be fair and an impartial jury-you know better.
if you are saying the fake committee is announcing this to take some heat off of the DOJ to arrest Trump-duh.
if you are saying it will be fair and an impartial jury-you know better.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:17 pm to cajunangelle
quote:
if you are saying the fake committee is announcing this to take some heat off of the DOJ to arrest Trump-duh. if you are saying it will be fair and an impartial jury-you know better.
I am saying neither of those things.
I am saying that DOJ has already made its decision, and nothing the J6 committee did impacted that decision.
Any coordination with the J6 committee timing is just political theater and window dressing.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:17 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
In something as politically charged as this? Discovery is practically meaningless for this.
It’s not discovery that should worry the dems. It gives a forum for trump to show the evidence of fraud where no other court has let it get to that point. If they are going to say he was committing fraud by soliciting money by saying the vote was fraudulent, they will have to prove that was a lie beyond a reasonable doubt.
quote:
but people thinking it’ll be some avenue for Trump to present evidence of election fraud are very wrong.
Insurrection isn’t the only referral.
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 3:19 pm
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:19 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
It gives a forum for trump to show the evidence of fraud where no other court has let it get to that point.
I disagree and expect that any federal judge this shows up in front of will as well.
What are the referred charges? Insurrection, obstruction on an official proceeding, and what else?
What charge would allow Trump to present any evidence on the merits of the election results?
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:19 pm to c on z
quote:
Raising money by lying to online donors is nothing?
How cute
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:21 pm to MightyYat
quote:
I tell you what, hotshot. Let Trump have access to all 14K hours of Capitol footage then let's dance.
Good point. They would certainly be required to turn it all over.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:25 pm to Indefatigable
My fault. It’s Conspiracy to defraud the government. I thought it was conspiracy for fraud based upon “lying” to get donations as C on Z inferred. My mistake. Not sure what the basis for a conspiracy to defraud the gov would be. But it appears as though discussing the steal isn’t on the table. Unless that is the basis for the charge.
Getting the J6 video footage is on the table, though.
Getting the J6 video footage is on the table, though.
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:26 pm to Indefatigable
Dude I’m not going to try to give you a list of what would be complete guesses. I’m not the kind of fella to insist on pulling shite outta my arse and acting as if it’s certified expert analysis. We all know many folks are ok with doing that, making stuff up that you really couldn’t even possibly know, given one’s level of access (which is usually none lol), but I wouldn’t insult myself by doing same.
The one I do know to be a certainty is discovery is never not relevant and always has the potential to produce a final nail in the coffin of either side’s case. Less and except stuff like traffic tickets and low level misdemeanors (for which you are still obligated to file for discovery because it’s probably “light” malpractice not to do so).
And if you simply want general avenues and items relevant and potential sources of key evidence, I can so that but you gotta just try to shoot a couple possibilities out first. I’ll throw out one example: pretrial hearings of government witnesses, extract their testimony on the record on various angles previously avoided by the government attorneys for obvious, attain the transcript and boom, that can be gold especially when used to impeach that same witness for inconsistencies at trial……technically a part of the discovery stage.
The one I do know to be a certainty is discovery is never not relevant and always has the potential to produce a final nail in the coffin of either side’s case. Less and except stuff like traffic tickets and low level misdemeanors (for which you are still obligated to file for discovery because it’s probably “light” malpractice not to do so).
And if you simply want general avenues and items relevant and potential sources of key evidence, I can so that but you gotta just try to shoot a couple possibilities out first. I’ll throw out one example: pretrial hearings of government witnesses, extract their testimony on the record on various angles previously avoided by the government attorneys for obvious, attain the transcript and boom, that can be gold especially when used to impeach that same witness for inconsistencies at trial……technically a part of the discovery stage.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:27 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Not sure what the basis for a conspiracy to defraud the gov would be.
From reading the nonsense wording in a CNBC article, it seems very similar to obstruction and just another charge they are tacking on for the same “offense”.
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:31 pm to davyjones
I know what discovery is.
My point is that it’s not the panacea in these high profile cases that people on the internet want it to be.
Nothing meaningful vis a vis the election itself will come out of any discovery in the prosecution of Trump, to the extent that takes place. He’ll easily be acquitted of the charges as suggested by the J6 committee.
The election itself is totally irrelevant to the referred charges, which is why I’m confident saying that nothing at all will come out of discovery in that arena. Besides, election records are not in the federal governments control. Good luck finding a judge willing to enforce a subpoena on states in this matter.
My point is that it’s not the panacea in these high profile cases that people on the internet want it to be.
Nothing meaningful vis a vis the election itself will come out of any discovery in the prosecution of Trump, to the extent that takes place. He’ll easily be acquitted of the charges as suggested by the J6 committee.
The election itself is totally irrelevant to the referred charges, which is why I’m confident saying that nothing at all will come out of discovery in that arena. Besides, election records are not in the federal governments control. Good luck finding a judge willing to enforce a subpoena on states in this matter.
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:31 pm to doubleb
Bull FCKG schidt
I am ready to have a J6 committee on what the GD Democrats did around J6
They tried to get a narrative on their lying bullschidt - it is time for THEIR shameful behaviors and actions to be investigated
Get us that 14,00 hours of video AND GET THE REAL SHOW GOING
I am ready to have a J6 committee on what the GD Democrats did around J6
They tried to get a narrative on their lying bullschidt - it is time for THEIR shameful behaviors and actions to be investigated
Get us that 14,00 hours of video AND GET THE REAL SHOW GOING
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:33 pm to Proximo
I'm so IN! I'm literally shaking.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:33 pm to JJJimmyJimJames
quote:
I am ready to have a J6 committee on what the GD Democrats did around J6
YES! This is a winning issue for Republicans so we should drag it out FOREVER!
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:38 pm to Indefatigable
Well I figured you probably are familiar with the civil side of discovery, and I can mainly bring to bear insight on the criminal. Which this would be, criminal law litigation.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:41 pm to Proximo
How is this "breaking"?
We all knew this would be the outcome the second they couldnt produce evidence of any kind.
We all knew this would be the outcome the second they couldnt produce evidence of any kind.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:45 pm to Indefatigable
1. The Democrats used treachery to produce a series of HOAXES against Americans.
2. The Democrats hired the people who perpetrated EVERY bit of the violence at the Capitol building.
What are details of the pipe bomb?
What federal employees and human informants hired by the FBI and/or Nancy Pelosi directed every bit of the violence at the Capitol Building?
Investigate the Ashely Babbitt HOAX perpetrated by Nancy Pelosi and Democrat hired antifa crisis actors.
3. The GD Democrats TOOK POLITICAL PRISONERS and held them without legal justification
AMERICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS! UNREAL! RELEASE POLITICAL PRISONERS! IMMEDIATELY!
2. The Democrats hired the people who perpetrated EVERY bit of the violence at the Capitol building.
What are details of the pipe bomb?
What federal employees and human informants hired by the FBI and/or Nancy Pelosi directed every bit of the violence at the Capitol Building?
Investigate the Ashely Babbitt HOAX perpetrated by Nancy Pelosi and Democrat hired antifa crisis actors.
3. The GD Democrats TOOK POLITICAL PRISONERS and held them without legal justification
AMERICAN POLITICAL PRISONERS! UNREAL! RELEASE POLITICAL PRISONERS! IMMEDIATELY!
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 4:02 pm
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