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Started By
Message
Barack Obama cracks down on for-profit colleges: Why do it this way?
Posted on 3/14/14 at 7:58 am
Posted on 3/14/14 at 7:58 am
quote:
The Obama administration on Thursday took an aggressive step to crack down on for-profit career training colleges, proposing a regulatory regimen that could shut down hundreds of degree programs — enrolling a million students in fields ranging from accounting to air-conditioning repair — for failing to place graduates in well-paying jobs.
The administration framed the move as a bold step to protect Americans from predatory institutions that leave students with high debt and few marketable skills. For-profit colleges, however, rejected the regulation as an unacceptable — and possibly illegal — federal intrusion into the private sector. Some Republicans in Congress weren’t happy, either.
quote:
The Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, & Pensions spent two years investigating the industry and released a scathing report in 2012 that concluded taxpayers were wasting tens of billions annually because so many students took out huge loans through federal aid programs, yet failed to earn degrees. The investigation, spearheaded by Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), found that the schools spent millions on marketing and employed armies of recruiters, yet had few support staff to help students stay in school; many who enrolled left after just a few months.
I have no problem with for profit colleges, but the government should limit where federal funds (both grants and especially loans) may be spent. These for-profit colleges often make their money by convincing soldiers who have a GI bill (but currently have no interest in furthering their education) to spend it on a program in graphic design or photography or fashion merchandising. The "colleges" bill the government for the classes (which are typically just as expensive as standard state sponsored colleges) but the students rarely complete the classes and gaining employment in their field of study is even rarer. It's basically a racket.
Politico
This post was edited on 3/14/14 at 8:04 am
15
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:04 am to a want
quote:
These for-profit colleges make their money by (for example) convincing soldiers who have a GI bill (but curretly have no interest in furthering their education) to spend it on a program in graphic design or photography or fashion merchandising. The "colleges" bill the government for the classes (which are typically just as expensive as standard state sponsored colleges) but the students rarely complete the classes and gaining employment in their field of study is even rarer. It's basically a racket.
Whose fault is that? How about the President crack down on himself for creating a bad hiring environment for the kids who graduate these programs.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:04 am to a want
quote:
the government should limit where federal funds (both grants and especially loans) may be spent.
THAT would essentially shut these programs down.
I actually agree with the Obama administration on this. These programs mostly have no admissions requirements other than "students" be able to sign their names on students loan documents. That's all these schools really care about, i.e., getting those student loan dollars and putting these kids/adults into a massive amount of debt that they will never be able to repay.
If these "students" had to apply for and get REAL loans, very, very few would even begin to qualify.
ETA: Does anyone doubt that this administration will do an about face if these for-profit schools make a few (million) well placed campaign contributions in the next few months? Hell, maybe some of the owners of these school can even get themselves ambassadorships in the process!
This post was edited on 3/14/14 at 8:08 am
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:04 am to a want
Will the feds apply this same scrutiny to "traditional" colleges/institutions? Kids are churning up huge debts and ending up with useless degrees there also.
Of course, we know the answer...because one group has a bunch of union members (both faculty and staff) and one does not.
Of course, we know the answer...because one group has a bunch of union members (both faculty and staff) and one does not.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:04 am to a want
This just seems like another situation where we are attacking a powerful symptom of the problem, but ignoring the true issue.
The problem isn't the for profit colleges. They just responded to a situation created by government overspending on student loans.
It isn't a smart political movie to attack the illogical student loan system though. It is much easier to go after these colleges.
The problem isn't the for profit colleges. They just responded to a situation created by government overspending on student loans.
It isn't a smart political movie to attack the illogical student loan system though. It is much easier to go after these colleges.
This post was edited on 3/14/14 at 8:12 am
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:06 am to MMauler
quote:And that is the true problem. There is no scrutiny in the dispensation of federal loan checks.
If these "students" had to apply for and get REAL loans, very, very few would even begin to qualify.
This post was edited on 3/14/14 at 8:06 am
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:10 am to Scruffy
quote:
And that is the true problem. There is no scrutiny in the dispensation of federal loan checks.
Indeed. If a person wants to open his own business and get a loan to buy a hot dog stand, he'll need several years worth of tax returns, a business plan, credit checks, collateral, and a dog and pony show for the bank. But if you want a PhD. in women's studies, here's a check for $250k.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:13 am to a want
Tie federal loan funding to job demand and the problem will fix itself. There are shitty worthless majors at for profits AND traditional colleges.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:16 am to Scruffy
quote:
This just seems like another situation where we are attacking a powerful symptom of the problem, but ignoring the true issue. The problem isn't the for profit colleges. They just responded to a situation created by government overspending on student loans. It isn't a smart political movie to attack the illogical student loan system though. It is much easier to go after these colleges
You nailed it.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:22 am to C
quote:
There are shitty worthless majors at for profits AND traditional colleges.
NYU ....
The above article illustrates how this is going on at traditional colleges. The girl in the article came from a poor background. Her mother was a waitress. And, yet, NYU allowed this girl to rack up $100K in loans majoring in ... get this ... Women's and Religious studies.
What the f*ck were they thinking ... NYU, the girl and her mother?
When someone is picking a major -- even at a highly respected school -- there should be some sort of counseling to determine if this major will allow a student to pay back the massive amount of debt that will be needed to get a worthless degree.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:28 am to MMauler
quote:I completely agree, but it isn't the colleges that are the issue here. They are getting paid. They are simply existing in a system which favors their current practices.
When someone is picking a major -- even at a highly respected school -- there should be some sort of counseling to determine if this major will allow a student to pay back the massive amount of debt that will be needed to get a worthless degree.
quote:FIFY
What the f*ck were they thinking ... the government, the girl and her mother?
NYU was thinking intelligently. They aren't stiffed 100k in tuition. The morons are the girl, her mom, and the idiots in the government who gave her the loan in the first place.
quote:After reading your article, who are these lenders? I'm curious to see who the idiots who loaned her the money are.
Meanwhile, universities like N.Y.U. enrolled students without asking many questions about whether they could afford a $50,000 annual tuition bill. Then the colleges introduced the students to lenders who underwrote big loans without any idea of what the students might earn someday — just like the mortgage lenders who didn’t ask borrowers to verify their incomes.
quote:See, this is part of the moronic mindset that keeps us in the current position.
But perhaps the biggest share lies with colleges and universities because they have the most knowledge of the financial aid process. And I would argue that they had an obligation to counsel students like Ms. Munna, who got in too far over their heads.
Why is it the college's responsibility to counsel her? They did not force her to take that loan out, nor did they force the loaner to give her the money.
The two parties at fault here are the girl and the company that loaned her the money to begin with.
This post was edited on 3/14/14 at 8:36 am
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:28 am to Scruffy
quote:
This just seems like another situation where we are attacking a powerful symptom of the problem, but ignoring the true issue.
The problem isn't the for profit colleges. They just responded to a situation created by government overspending on student loans.
It isn't a smart political movie to attack the illogical student loan system though. It is much easier to go after these colleges
/thread
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:28 am to C
Does no one hold the students accountable?
I took out a ton of student loans in college. I couldn't find a job after graduating either, instead I found a job at a fricking video store to start paying back my loan - and it took me two years to finally find a 'real' job.
Students need to man up and stop whining about having to pay back a loan. Don't go into debt for a useless Liberal Arts degree, find work and pay it back.
I took out a ton of student loans in college. I couldn't find a job after graduating either, instead I found a job at a fricking video store to start paying back my loan - and it took me two years to finally find a 'real' job.
Students need to man up and stop whining about having to pay back a loan. Don't go into debt for a useless Liberal Arts degree, find work and pay it back.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:32 am to MMauler
Is the government loaning students money so they can have better lives or are they loaning money to gain control over their lives?
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:33 am to MMauler
Obama did say that now that health insurance doesn't hold people back that they are free to pursue their dreams of getting that PhD in a field of their choosing or any other thing they were held back from since they wouldn't be tied down to their old jobs.
A want, how does it feel to shite on people's dreams
A want, how does it feel to shite on people's dreams
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:35 am to Scruffy
quote:
quote:
What the f*ck were they thinking ... the government, the girl and her mother?
FIFY
NYU was thinking intelligently. They aren't stiffed 100k in tuition. The morons are the girl, her mom, and the idiots in the government who gave her the loan in the first place.
I can understand these for-profit scam operations. THAT is what they are "in business" to do -- get as many people as possible to rack up massive amounts of debt so that they can get paid immediately.
But, a school like NYU should be thinking of its reputation. It's ostensibly not a racket, and it should take some pride in the careers of its students.
One solution could be to require these schools to be on the hook when a certain percent of their former students (graduates and non graduates) default on their student loans. This should have the effect of killing off the for-profit scams and leaving the "reputable" colleges to take a closer look at preparing and counseling their students properly.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:38 am to MMauler
quote:
One solution could be to require these schools to be on the hook when a certain percent of their former students (graduates and non graduates) default on their student loans.
Didn't think you could default on student loans? At least not the federal ones (ie the ones that really matter).
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:40 am to MMauler
quote:I'm sure they do take pride in the careers of their students. Also, situations like this don't affect NYU's reputation, IMO. They did absolutely nothing wrong. They are simply thriving in an environment that is favorable to their current system.
But, a school like NYU should be thinking of its reputation. It's ostensibly not a racket, and it should take some pride in the careers of its students.
What should they have done differently? Should NYU charge students more if they have a statistically higher paying major?
The thing is, people who choose these majors can't claim ignorance. We all know what the eventual financial output of certain careers are.
quote:You aren't thinking that position completely through, although I wouldn't mind the outcome of that situation.
One solution could be to require these schools to be on the hook when a certain percent of their former students (graduates and non graduates) default on their student loans. This should have the effect of killing off the for-profit scams and leaving the "reputable" colleges to take a closer look at preparing and counseling their students properly.
What would actually happen is, these colleges would more than likely discard those majors which don't result in sufficient financial returns. As a business, it would be too risky to continue otherwise.
Why take the risk of offering a women's studies course if those who graduate in that field will more than likely be unable to pay for tuition? The risks outweigh the benefits.
This post was edited on 3/14/14 at 8:46 am
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:41 am to a want
quote:
a bold step to protect Americans from predatory i
well this always ends well
to quote an exchange between VOR and myself last night:
VOR:
quote:
You consistently demonstrate a lack of belief in the American public and electorate's ability to adapt to necessity
SFP:
quote:
i am not a liberal. they believe in this, which is why they believe in government.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:42 am to a want
quote:
so many students took out huge loans through federal aid programs, yet failed to earn degrees
oh gee
look
a problem developed by government failure...and we're going to solve it...through government!
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