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re: Agree or disagree? (Father's Day related)
Posted on 6/14/14 at 8:13 am to L.A.
Posted on 6/14/14 at 8:13 am to L.A.
quote:Then I disagree.
By diversity of care I mean male and female.
Parents can be aloof and disinterested in their children. Some can be careless. Some can be racist and pig headed about the world and pass these traits on. Some can't even be trusted to feed their kids properly.
None of this has any relationship to the gender, race, or creed of the parents.
2
Posted on 6/14/14 at 8:24 am to mmcgrath
quote:
Parents can be aloof and disinterested in their children. Some can be careless. Some can be racist and pig headed about the world and pass these traits on. Some can't even be trusted to feed their kids properly.
Right. But lets just talk about average functional parents. You know, the majority of the folks that you interact with. IMO, same sex parents are not the same as a functional hetero parent group. That doesn't mean that they cant be good parents, or that they aren't better than bad parents.
Posted on 6/14/14 at 8:27 am to L.A.
I think it is safe to say that all children benefit from having a mother and father in the home. Of course that does not mean all parents are created equal.
Posted on 6/14/14 at 8:32 am to mmcgrath
quote:I find it fascinating how as the broadly central base of a premise is indisputable, legitimacy is sought in a fringe argument.
Parents can be aloof and disinterested in their children
quote:Parents can murder their children.
Parents can be aloof and disinterested in their children
Parents can horribly abuse their children.
Adults in families comprised of 5 transgendered lesbians running a brothel out of their home can potentially be good parents.
Now then, let's talk about what does happen, rather than what "could" happen.
Posted on 6/14/14 at 9:46 am to DelU249
quote:
literally no one has said that.
I was referencing Sentrius' post above mine.
ETA: I have to add that my father died when I was 9 years old. He was a good guy, and we were close. My early life and certainly my adolescence would have been easier had he been around.
This post was edited on 6/14/14 at 9:53 am
Posted on 6/14/14 at 11:44 am to NC_Tigah
quote:Me too.
I find it fascinating how as the broadly central base of a premise is indisputable, legitimacy is sought in a fringe argument.
Posted on 6/14/14 at 12:25 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:Your words, not mine. Are you saying that sex organs are the only difference between men and women?
but that the fact that their sex organs are different is a significant factor in a child's development.
Posted on 6/14/14 at 12:29 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
I find it fascinating how as the broadly central base of a premise is indisputable, legitimacy is sought in a fringe argument.
The principle that two parent homes are better for children is indisputable, yes. The problem is the OP is using that indisputable fact and extrapolating it out to mean two parents OF DIFFERENT SEXES are better all other things being equal, which is a completely unsubstantiated claim. Even by his own admission, it comes from nothing more than his own intuition and "common sense".
Posted on 6/14/14 at 12:33 pm to L.A.
quote:
Are you saying that sex organs are the only difference between men and women?
No, I'm saying none of the differences in men and women relevant to the psychosocial development of children cannot be duplicated by a same-sex couple.
Now we can get into technicalities about base biological differences (for instance, a homosexual male couple cannot obviously breast feed) but that isn't what this conversation is about. The psychological maturation of a child is not dependent on the sex of their parents but the way in which they parent.
Posted on 6/14/14 at 12:35 pm to Roger Klarvin
I'll put you down in the 'disagree' category.
Posted on 6/14/14 at 12:37 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:For the second time in this thread you have misrepresented what I said in order to make your own argument look better. I despise intellectual dishonesty.
Even by his own admission, it comes from nothing more than his own intuition and "common sense".
Posted on 6/14/14 at 12:43 pm to L.A.
Your words:
Additionally, you have provided no evidence for your claim. Every single argument supporting it has been a personal anecdote.
At this point, the only thing substantiating your claim is your own belief in the claim. When I brought that up, your argument was that it's common sense.
quote:
It's common sense. It's self-evident. A man and a woman offer more diversity of care than two men or two women. That is the point of the OP.
Additionally, you have provided no evidence for your claim. Every single argument supporting it has been a personal anecdote.
At this point, the only thing substantiating your claim is your own belief in the claim. When I brought that up, your argument was that it's common sense.
Posted on 6/14/14 at 12:46 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:this.
At this point, the only thing substantiating your claim is your own belief in the claim. When I brought that up, your argument was that it's common sense.
Posted on 6/14/14 at 12:50 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:That's pretty much what we are talking about. Kids raised by same sex parents don't appear to have any issues that are different from parents with a male and female.
Now then, let's talk about what does happen, rather than what "could" happen.
I could argue that because having a child for a same sex couple is more often a decision as opposed to an accident than a different sex couple, that same sex couples will average out to be more stable environments. But that would simply be because of obviously same sex couples would have far fewer "accidents."
Posted on 6/14/14 at 12:54 pm to Roger Klarvin
I also said this:
You disagree. Fine. Duly noted.
quote:I think you're intellectually dishonest. I don't have a lot of experience with you on here, but twice in this thread you either put words in my mouth or left out part of what I said to make yourself look better.
I also have a PhD in Developmental Psychology, and over 30 years of experience in the mental health field, including over 10 years of teaching clinical work to graduate students, so I have a bit more than my own anecdotal experience behind what I'm saying.
You disagree. Fine. Duly noted.
Posted on 6/14/14 at 12:55 pm to L.A.
quote:There is no agree or disagree to this. There is simply the correct answer and the incorrect one.
Children who have both a mother and a father in the home benefit not just from more care, but from a diversity of care.
Agree or disagree?
Are there exceptions to the overall rule? Of course. Is the overall rule true? Yep.
Posted on 6/14/14 at 12:57 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:I suspect that it is no accident that in communities with a complete dearth of fathers, the boys in said communities turn out like shite.
OF DIFFERENT SEXES are better all other things being equal, which is a completely unsubstantiated claim
I suspect that if one could create a community with a complete dearth of mothers, we'd discover the girls in said community turn out like shite.
And, I think that reality is informative.
Posted on 6/14/14 at 12:59 pm to mmcgrath
quote:Now, I think it has been a fair point that there is not a lot of evidence showing that having parents of opposite sexes is required. But, now you seem to be using that lack of evidence AS EVIDENCE that there is no issue.
That's pretty much what we are talking about. Kids raised by same sex parents don't appear to have any issues that are different from parents with a male and female.
I suspect the truth on that point is that twofold.
1)Exceedingly few studies on the subject and
2)Even if there were, exceedingly little real world data with which to draw conclusions.
Posted on 6/14/14 at 1:14 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
But, now you seem to be using that lack of evidence AS EVIDENCE that there is no issue.
Congratulations on using the fact that there is no evidence to back up the OP's claim as a way to refute anyone who disagree's with him.
Can I make the claim that NJ families are better off than families in Louisiana? I mean, because there is no evidence there isn't a problem there right?
Posted on 6/14/14 at 1:16 pm to mmcgrath
quote:I think you should re-read my post. I acknowledged that your point that there isn't much scientific data to support the OP was valid .
Congratulations on using the fact that there is no evidence to back up the OP's claim as a way to refute anyone who disagree's with him.
I simply noted that it is valid in both directions. IE, you can't use the lack of scientific evidence as proof there is no problem.
What we have here is a dilemma without an answer and mostly, just opinions one way or the other. I do, in fact, disagree with your opinion, but my post speaks for itself on the points of fact(or lack thereof)
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