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Started By
Message
Shoop vs Saban vs Patterson vs Venables vs chavis (massive stat post)
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:32 pm
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:32 pm
so, I accidentally took twice the adderall I'm supposed to yesterday, and here's the result.
basically, we need to hire Shoop as fast as we can because he could be the best DC in the SEC, and yes that includes over saban.
I know almost nothing about Shoop, he was not in my top 3, so I grabbed his stats in 15 categories from this year at Penn State and compared them to what Venables did at Clemson and what "the chief" did here.
then, to stack the deck against Shoop as much as I could, I added Patterson and saban to the list too.
on top of all that, I took the starting defense for all 5 teams and broke each player down by class and their composite ranking as a recruit coming out of high school.
after that, using an incredibly convoluted system that I made up during heart palpitations and will explain later, I averaged it all together to see what DC had the most talent and experience to work with, and if their results on the field reflected that.
overall, bama easily had the best combination of upperclassman and talent.
ALA - 7.21
CLE - 6.56
LSU - 5.97
PSU - 5.65
TCU - 5.36
as you can see, Penn State is 4th here, the defense was a little older than LSU's but not nearly as talented, and yet Shoop, in his first season, easily beat saban and "the chief" when it came to producing on the field, and tied Venables and Patterson (out of the 15 categories, those 3 all led in 5 each).
basically, we need to hire Shoop as fast as we can because he could be the best DC in the SEC, and yes that includes over saban.
I know almost nothing about Shoop, he was not in my top 3, so I grabbed his stats in 15 categories from this year at Penn State and compared them to what Venables did at Clemson and what "the chief" did here.
then, to stack the deck against Shoop as much as I could, I added Patterson and saban to the list too.
on top of all that, I took the starting defense for all 5 teams and broke each player down by class and their composite ranking as a recruit coming out of high school.
after that, using an incredibly convoluted system that I made up during heart palpitations and will explain later, I averaged it all together to see what DC had the most talent and experience to work with, and if their results on the field reflected that.
overall, bama easily had the best combination of upperclassman and talent.
ALA - 7.21
CLE - 6.56
LSU - 5.97
PSU - 5.65
TCU - 5.36
as you can see, Penn State is 4th here, the defense was a little older than LSU's but not nearly as talented, and yet Shoop, in his first season, easily beat saban and "the chief" when it came to producing on the field, and tied Venables and Patterson (out of the 15 categories, those 3 all led in 5 each).
This post was edited on 1/6/15 at 4:03 pm
14
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:32 pm to MastrShake
stats alone never paint the full picture, there's always a million different variables, but they do say something about the job Shoop did this year (and about the new DC at Texas AM) so here they are, along with where they ranked nationally.
these are all vs Power 5 schools only, there are no FCS schools considered in these numbers
scoring defense - points per game
CLE - 19.1 (4th)
LSU - 21.1 (8th)
ALA - 21.1 (8th)
TCU - 21.2 (10th)
PSU - 21.7 (13th)
total defense - yards per game
PSU - 287.3 (2nd)
CLE - 290.1 (3rd)
LSU - 344.1 (16th)
ALA - 361.5 (25th)
TCU - 368.6 (29th)
total defense - yards per play
PSU - 4.25 (2nd)
CLE - 4.42 (5th)
ALA - 5.00 (18th)
TCU - 5.02 (20th)
LSU - 5.28 (31st)
rush defense - yards per game
TCU - 112.55 (7th)
CLE - 117.91 (12th)
ALA - 120.82 (15th)
PSU - 127.67 (19th)
LSU - 164.89 (51st)
rush defense - yards per play
TCU - 2.98 (5th)
CLE - 3.31 (10th)
ALA - 3.35 (12th)
PSU - 3.37 (14th)
LSU - 4.67 (66th)
tackles for loss per game
CLE - 9.82 (2nd)
TCU - 8.00 (8th)
ALA - 7.36 (17th)
PSU - 6.78 (26th)
LSU - 5.44 (65th)
sacks per game
CLE - 3.64 (7th)
TCU - 2.55 (27th)
PSU - 2.33 (38th)
ALA - 2.27 (44th)
LSU - 1.22 (87th)
pass defense - yards per game
PSU - 159.7 (5th)
CLE - 172.2 (12th)
LSU - 179.2 (14th)
ALA - 240.7 (63rd)
TCU - 256.1 (78th)
pass defense - yards per attempt
PSU - 5.4 (4th)
CLE - 5.7 (9th)
LSU - 6.0 (14th)
ALA - 6.7 (31st)
TCU - 7.2 (52nd)
passes defended per game
TCU - 6.27 (9th)
ALA - 6.00 (11th)
LSU - 5.78 (17th)
PSU - 4.89 (36th)
CLE - 3.91 (70th)
interceptions per game
TCU - 2.18 (4th)
PSU - 1.33 (17th)
ALA - 1.00 (29th)
CLE - 0.73 (70th)
LSU - 0.67 (73rd)
fumbles forced per game
TCU - 1.09 (30th)
CLE - 1.00 (31st)
ALA - 0.64 (55th)
LSU - 0.78 (59th)
PSU - 0.56 (78th)
opponent first downs allowed per game
CLE - 15.5 (2nd)
PSU - 15.7 (3rd)
LSU - 16.2 (7th)
TCU - 17.5 (11th)
ALA - 18.2 (17th)
opponent 3rd down conversion
CLE - 45 for 164, 27.44 percent (2nd)
TCU - 51 for 181, 28.18 percent (3rd)
PSU - 44 for 144, 31.25 percent (8th)
LSU - 49 for 135, 36.30 percent (24th)
ALA - 74 for 183, 40.44 percent (54th)
opponent 4th down conversion
PSU - 3 for 10, 30.00 percent (16th)
CLE - 5 for 13, 38.46 percent (29th)
ALA - 7 for 16, 43.75 percent (34th)
LSU - 6 for 11, 54.55 percent (63rd)
TCU - 9 for 16, 56.25 percent (67th)
these are all vs Power 5 schools only, there are no FCS schools considered in these numbers
scoring defense - points per game
CLE - 19.1 (4th)
LSU - 21.1 (8th)
ALA - 21.1 (8th)
TCU - 21.2 (10th)
PSU - 21.7 (13th)
total defense - yards per game
PSU - 287.3 (2nd)
CLE - 290.1 (3rd)
LSU - 344.1 (16th)
ALA - 361.5 (25th)
TCU - 368.6 (29th)
total defense - yards per play
PSU - 4.25 (2nd)
CLE - 4.42 (5th)
ALA - 5.00 (18th)
TCU - 5.02 (20th)
LSU - 5.28 (31st)
rush defense - yards per game
TCU - 112.55 (7th)
CLE - 117.91 (12th)
ALA - 120.82 (15th)
PSU - 127.67 (19th)
LSU - 164.89 (51st)
rush defense - yards per play
TCU - 2.98 (5th)
CLE - 3.31 (10th)
ALA - 3.35 (12th)
PSU - 3.37 (14th)
LSU - 4.67 (66th)
tackles for loss per game
CLE - 9.82 (2nd)
TCU - 8.00 (8th)
ALA - 7.36 (17th)
PSU - 6.78 (26th)
LSU - 5.44 (65th)
sacks per game
CLE - 3.64 (7th)
TCU - 2.55 (27th)
PSU - 2.33 (38th)
ALA - 2.27 (44th)
LSU - 1.22 (87th)
pass defense - yards per game
PSU - 159.7 (5th)
CLE - 172.2 (12th)
LSU - 179.2 (14th)
ALA - 240.7 (63rd)
TCU - 256.1 (78th)
pass defense - yards per attempt
PSU - 5.4 (4th)
CLE - 5.7 (9th)
LSU - 6.0 (14th)
ALA - 6.7 (31st)
TCU - 7.2 (52nd)
passes defended per game
TCU - 6.27 (9th)
ALA - 6.00 (11th)
LSU - 5.78 (17th)
PSU - 4.89 (36th)
CLE - 3.91 (70th)
interceptions per game
TCU - 2.18 (4th)
PSU - 1.33 (17th)
ALA - 1.00 (29th)
CLE - 0.73 (70th)
LSU - 0.67 (73rd)
fumbles forced per game
TCU - 1.09 (30th)
CLE - 1.00 (31st)
ALA - 0.64 (55th)
LSU - 0.78 (59th)
PSU - 0.56 (78th)
opponent first downs allowed per game
CLE - 15.5 (2nd)
PSU - 15.7 (3rd)
LSU - 16.2 (7th)
TCU - 17.5 (11th)
ALA - 18.2 (17th)
opponent 3rd down conversion
CLE - 45 for 164, 27.44 percent (2nd)
TCU - 51 for 181, 28.18 percent (3rd)
PSU - 44 for 144, 31.25 percent (8th)
LSU - 49 for 135, 36.30 percent (24th)
ALA - 74 for 183, 40.44 percent (54th)
opponent 4th down conversion
PSU - 3 for 10, 30.00 percent (16th)
CLE - 5 for 13, 38.46 percent (29th)
ALA - 7 for 16, 43.75 percent (34th)
LSU - 6 for 11, 54.55 percent (63rd)
TCU - 9 for 16, 56.25 percent (67th)
This post was edited on 1/6/15 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:32 pm to MastrShake
if you assign a 5 to every first place finish, a 4 to every second, a 3 to every third, and so on, then divide by 5 for an average, here's how they would rank
Venables - 12
Shoop - 9.8
Patterson - 9.4
saban - 7.6
"the chief" - 6.2
obviously Venables is ahead here, but take a look at the roster he was handed compared to Shoop. this is each teams most recent depth chart, along with that players composite ranking as a recruit according to 24/7
Clemson
DE - Corey Crawford (SR) 4 star, number 201
DT - Grady Jarrett (SR) 3 star, number 1131
DT - Josh Watson (SR) 4 star, number 5 (prep school)
DE - Vic Beasley (SR) 3 star, number 483 (converted TE prospect)
SLB - Korrin Wiggins (SO) 3 star, number 660 (converted S prospect)
MLB - Kellen Jones (JR) 4 star, number 290
WLB - Tony Steward (SR) 5 star, number 15
CB - MacKensie Alexander (RS FR) 5 star, number 29
S - Jayron Kearse (SO) 4 star, number 216
S - Robert Smith (SR) 3 star, number 1196 (converted DT QB)
CB - Garry Peters (RS SR) 3 star, number 324
Penn State
DE - C.J. Olaniyan (SR) 4 star, number 167
NT - Austin Johnson (RS SO) 3 star, number 981
DT - Anthony Zettel (RS JR) 4 star, number 134 (converted OL prospect)
DE - Deion Barnes (RS JR) 3 star, number 313
OLB - Brandon Bell (SO) 3 star, number 708
MLB - Mike Hull (SR) 4 star, number 183
WLB - Nyeem Wartman (RS SO) 3 star, number 649
CB - Jordan Lucas (JR) 3 star, number 1253
FS - Marcus Allen (FR) 3 star, number 337
SS - Adrian Amos (SR) 3 star, number 952
CB - Trevor Williams (JR) 3 star, number 1202 (converted WR prospect)
Venables - 12
Shoop - 9.8
Patterson - 9.4
saban - 7.6
"the chief" - 6.2
obviously Venables is ahead here, but take a look at the roster he was handed compared to Shoop. this is each teams most recent depth chart, along with that players composite ranking as a recruit according to 24/7
Clemson
DE - Corey Crawford (SR) 4 star, number 201
DT - Grady Jarrett (SR) 3 star, number 1131
DT - Josh Watson (SR) 4 star, number 5 (prep school)
DE - Vic Beasley (SR) 3 star, number 483 (converted TE prospect)
SLB - Korrin Wiggins (SO) 3 star, number 660 (converted S prospect)
MLB - Kellen Jones (JR) 4 star, number 290
WLB - Tony Steward (SR) 5 star, number 15
CB - MacKensie Alexander (RS FR) 5 star, number 29
S - Jayron Kearse (SO) 4 star, number 216
S - Robert Smith (SR) 3 star, number 1196 (converted DT QB)
CB - Garry Peters (RS SR) 3 star, number 324
Penn State
DE - C.J. Olaniyan (SR) 4 star, number 167
NT - Austin Johnson (RS SO) 3 star, number 981
DT - Anthony Zettel (RS JR) 4 star, number 134 (converted OL prospect)
DE - Deion Barnes (RS JR) 3 star, number 313
OLB - Brandon Bell (SO) 3 star, number 708
MLB - Mike Hull (SR) 4 star, number 183
WLB - Nyeem Wartman (RS SO) 3 star, number 649
CB - Jordan Lucas (JR) 3 star, number 1253
FS - Marcus Allen (FR) 3 star, number 337
SS - Adrian Amos (SR) 3 star, number 952
CB - Trevor Williams (JR) 3 star, number 1202 (converted WR prospect)
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:32 pm to MastrShake
LSU
DE - Jermauria Rasco (SR) 4 star, number 90
DT - Christian LaCouture (SO) 4 star, number 277
DT - Davon Godchaux (FR) 4 star, number 148
DE - Danielle Hunter (JR) 4 star, number 194
SLB - Louis Lamar (JR) 4 star, number 282
MLB - Kendell Beckwith (SO) 4 star, number 74
WLB - Kwon Alexander (JR) 4 star, number 86
CB - Jalen Collins (JR) 3 star, number 387
S - Jalen Milss (JR) 3 star, number 787
S - Ronald Martin (SR) 3 star, number 653
CB - Tre'Davious White (SO) 4 star, number 55
bama
DE - Jonathon Allen (SO) 5 star, number 16
NT - A'Shawn Robinson (SO) 5 star, number 33
DE - Jarran Reed (JR) 4 star, number 13 (juco)
SLB - Denzel Devall (JR) 4 star, number 139
MLB - Trey DePriest (SR) 5 star, number 29
WLB - Reggie Ragland (SO) 4 star, number 41
JAK - Xzavier Dickson (SR) 4 star, number 34
CB - Geno Smith (JR) 4 star, number 61
SS - Landon Collins (JR) 5 star, number 7
FS - Nick Perry (SR) 4 star, number 245
CB - Cyrus Jones (JR) 4 star, number 43
TCU
DLE - Josh Caraway (SO) 2 star, number 2714
DT - Chuck Hunter (SR) 3 star, number 406
DT - Davion Pierson (JR) 3 star, number 898
RDE - Mike Tuana (JR) 2 star, number 3055
MLB - Marcus Mallet (SR) 3 star, number 696
SLB - Paul Dawson (SR) unranked
CB - Ranthony Texada (RS FR) 3 star, number 787
SS - Sam Carter (SR) 3 star, number 359
FS - Derrick Kindred (JR) 2 star, number 2721
WS - Chris Hackett (JR) 3 star, number 680
CB - Kevin White (SR) 3 star, number 1283
DE - Jermauria Rasco (SR) 4 star, number 90
DT - Christian LaCouture (SO) 4 star, number 277
DT - Davon Godchaux (FR) 4 star, number 148
DE - Danielle Hunter (JR) 4 star, number 194
SLB - Louis Lamar (JR) 4 star, number 282
MLB - Kendell Beckwith (SO) 4 star, number 74
WLB - Kwon Alexander (JR) 4 star, number 86
CB - Jalen Collins (JR) 3 star, number 387
S - Jalen Milss (JR) 3 star, number 787
S - Ronald Martin (SR) 3 star, number 653
CB - Tre'Davious White (SO) 4 star, number 55
bama
DE - Jonathon Allen (SO) 5 star, number 16
NT - A'Shawn Robinson (SO) 5 star, number 33
DE - Jarran Reed (JR) 4 star, number 13 (juco)
SLB - Denzel Devall (JR) 4 star, number 139
MLB - Trey DePriest (SR) 5 star, number 29
WLB - Reggie Ragland (SO) 4 star, number 41
JAK - Xzavier Dickson (SR) 4 star, number 34
CB - Geno Smith (JR) 4 star, number 61
SS - Landon Collins (JR) 5 star, number 7
FS - Nick Perry (SR) 4 star, number 245
CB - Cyrus Jones (JR) 4 star, number 43
TCU
DLE - Josh Caraway (SO) 2 star, number 2714
DT - Chuck Hunter (SR) 3 star, number 406
DT - Davion Pierson (JR) 3 star, number 898
RDE - Mike Tuana (JR) 2 star, number 3055
MLB - Marcus Mallet (SR) 3 star, number 696
SLB - Paul Dawson (SR) unranked
CB - Ranthony Texada (RS FR) 3 star, number 787
SS - Sam Carter (SR) 3 star, number 359
FS - Derrick Kindred (JR) 2 star, number 2721
WS - Chris Hackett (JR) 3 star, number 680
CB - Kevin White (SR) 3 star, number 1283
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:32 pm to MastrShake
trying to compare rosters got a little convoluted. giving a 3 to every 3 star for example seemed dumb because, as you can see with TCU, number 359 and number 1283 are both 3 stars, and that's a hell of a gap.
so to give more weight to higher prospects, I gave a 7 to every prospect ranked 1-50, a 6 to every prospect from 51-100, and so on like this
1 - 50 = 7
51 – 100 = 6
101 – 200 = 5
201 – 300 = 4
301 – 500 = 3
501 – 1000 = 2
1001 and up = 1
I subtracted a 2 from each player if they came from a juco or prep school (because they were being ranked in a much smaller pool), then added it up and divided by 11 for an average
ALA - 6.18
LSU - 4.45
CLE - 3.63
PSU - 2.81
TCU - 1.72
for the class I simply gave a 1 to every FR, a 2 to every SO, and so on, adding a 1 if they were a RS. Clemson had the most upperclassman of the 5 teams, while LSU was the youngest
CLE - 9.50
TCU - 9.00
PSU - 8.50
ALA - 8.25
LSU - 7.50
then I added the sets together to see who had the best combination of talent and experience to get the rankings from the top post.
look, just fricking hire Shoop and O as the DL coach, ok. Im not sure how much more clear I can make this.
so to give more weight to higher prospects, I gave a 7 to every prospect ranked 1-50, a 6 to every prospect from 51-100, and so on like this
1 - 50 = 7
51 – 100 = 6
101 – 200 = 5
201 – 300 = 4
301 – 500 = 3
501 – 1000 = 2
1001 and up = 1
I subtracted a 2 from each player if they came from a juco or prep school (because they were being ranked in a much smaller pool), then added it up and divided by 11 for an average
ALA - 6.18
LSU - 4.45
CLE - 3.63
PSU - 2.81
TCU - 1.72
for the class I simply gave a 1 to every FR, a 2 to every SO, and so on, adding a 1 if they were a RS. Clemson had the most upperclassman of the 5 teams, while LSU was the youngest
CLE - 9.50
TCU - 9.00
PSU - 8.50
ALA - 8.25
LSU - 7.50
then I added the sets together to see who had the best combination of talent and experience to get the rankings from the top post.
look, just fricking hire Shoop and O as the DL coach, ok. Im not sure how much more clear I can make this.
This post was edited on 1/6/15 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:34 pm to MastrShake
Cliffnotes?
Also what are you up to these days since you no longer write for WWTDD?
Also what are you up to these days since you no longer write for WWTDD?
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:35 pm to MastrShake
you have to start all over and add Schiano now 
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:35 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Also what are you up to these days since you no longer write for WWTDD?
apparently not much
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:35 pm to MastrShake
quote:
look, just fricking hire Shoop and O as the DL coach, ok. Im not sure how much more clear I can make this.
Thats all you had to say
But alleva gave Brick a raise and he is too much of a count to pay the buyout
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:38 pm to MastrShake
Lot o info there. Good stuff. Ive liked shoop most from te beginning. Not for just what he has done at PSU, but also at vandy. I dont know why they arent seriously considering him.
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:38 pm to MastrShake
Way to steal my thunder. .
Great work on this. Shoop would be a slam dunk hire.
Great work on this. Shoop would be a slam dunk hire.
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:38 pm to MastrShake
You need to share your meds if you want me to read and understand all that.
I appreciate the summation at the top, though.
I appreciate the summation at the top, though.
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:39 pm to Magician
From now on can we secure the signature of the coordinators before giving their assistant coaches a raise?
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:43 pm to Choctaw
Hire the TCU dude.........
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:43 pm to MastrShake
You only did 2014? Pfft....lazy.
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:45 pm to MastrShake
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:47 pm to MastrShake
Each time I see comparisons, I'd like to see Shoop in PnG more and more.
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:49 pm to Choctaw
quote:Im in denial about that. suffice to say Im not a fan.
you have to start all over and add Schiano now
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:51 pm to MastrShake
Lots of good info...........Thanks! I now have a favorite.
This post was edited on 1/6/15 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 1/6/15 at 1:57 pm to MastrShake
Shoop or Venables would be great hires. We wouldn't miss a beat on Defense if we got one of these guys.
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