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re: Gruden's comment on MNF about offensive talent at LSU
Posted on 12/24/14 at 10:18 pm to boxcar willie
Posted on 12/24/14 at 10:18 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
something along the lines of Seattle or San Francisco.
Do you realize that neither of these teams run pure west coast offenses? Or that both Darrel Bevell & Greg Roman have conservative philosophies in terms of the passing game because of the struggles of their quarterbacks as passers?
1
Posted on 12/24/14 at 10:23 pm to JaxTiger10
quote:
Personally I would like to see a power running pro style that uses some motion, shotgun formations, some power run out of the pistol, misdirection plays, underneath routes to the backs and TE's, some middle pass routes and over the top. Called QB runs.
Thats what we do.
Well I hope you are right about seeing some of that in the future. Seems Miles/Cam realized they need to do more with the offense towards the end of the season, after the Bama and Arkansas games. If we continue to build on and develop some of the things we did in that game (texas A&M), which were most of the things I listed, we should be fine going forward on offense. You can't just say you are going to run into the teeth of the better SEC defenses over and over again with no attempt at deception and expect to overpower them. They have good athletes also. Things we haven't seen all season or much of last year either. Like throwing out of the shotgun on 1st and 2nd down and to TE's, RB's and WR's. Putting a man in motion. Misdirection like the jet sweep. The read option. Nothing complicated but things we should have been doing all year. At least it is something to build on and we can add more complexity as the players gain experience with that type of system.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 10:27 pm to Cadello
quote:
Miles haters come out in force
There are those, but there are program haters as well. There are guys posting here who the next time they cheer for LSU will be the 1st time they cheer for LSU. In other words, they are trolls from other schools just getting off by stirring the shite. They put on a LSU in their screen name or a Saints and away they go.
I guess they have nothing better to do than throw our the flame bait and sit back to watch how many jump on it.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 10:27 pm to chilge1
quote:
quote:
If what we ran this year is what we have to run until they gain experience because our offense is so complicated maybe we should be running something else
Would you rather run the complicated offense that when executed appropriate is unstoppable, or the simplistic, gimmick offense that can be stifled by an effective defense?
That's a great response, provided you realize we did neither this year...
Posted on 12/24/14 at 10:31 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
Do you realize that neither of these teams run pure west coast offenses? Or that both Darrel Bevell & Greg Roman have conservative philosophies in terms of the passing game because of the struggles of their quarterbacks as passers?
Struggles at QB as passers and mobile as well, sounds familiar. That's why I named those two teams. Something similar to what we could be doing but on a simpler level. Just adding some of those concepts to our pro style, such as the underneath and middle pass game, combined with a mobile QB, and power run game. Nothing overly complicated.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 10:34 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
Miles haters come out in force There are those, but there are program haters as well.
I am neither. I love Miles and LSU but just want a more modern effective offense than what we run now. I think it holds us back and doesn't make the best use of our talent.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 10:42 pm to JaxTiger10
[/quote]I asked you what criteria you were using to say those programs were better than LSU in 2004 and you listed a bunch of historical shite that has nothing to do with where those programs were in 2004. But since you listed them I'll play along.
By 2004 they were 8 seasons removed from a NC and Ron Zook was their head coach. The last time they had won an SEC title was four seasons earlier. Zook was fired in 2004 for having back to back 5 loss seasons. So were they still a better program in 2004 than LSU?
Won a NC in 1999. But then 2,4,5,3,3 loss seasons with no top 10 finishes. Still a better program than LSU in 2004?
NC in 1998. Then 3,4,2,5,3,3 loss seasons and no SEC titles. Better than LSU as a program in 2004?
Oklahoma was rolling during that time period and would have probably have been considered a top 5 program. But LSU has just beaten them in the NC game. So although historically they were considered a better program I don't think they were that far apart from LSU in 2004 in reality in terms of talent, facilities, etc.
From 1996 to 2001 they went 37-35. Their second-worst over any five-year span in history. Starting in 2001 with Carroll they went 6-6, 11-2,12-1,13-0. They were a better program historically but were re-emerging with Carrol at the same time LSU was with Saban. So they would be in the top 5 ballpark.
Yes you need to go on. You named 5 programs 3 of which were not better programs than LSU in 2004.
And again, you are listing historical stuff. What matters at a program in win/loss record the last say 5 seasons, talent base, current roster, facilities, conference, etc...
quote:
Florida- had 6 sec titles and. National titles since 1991
By 2004 they were 8 seasons removed from a NC and Ron Zook was their head coach. The last time they had won an SEC title was four seasons earlier. Zook was fired in 2004 for having back to back 5 loss seasons. So were they still a better program in 2004 than LSU?
quote:
Florida St - finished in the top 5 for 14 straight years
Won a NC in 1999. But then 2,4,5,3,3 loss seasons with no top 10 finishes. Still a better program than LSU in 2004?
quote:
Tenn-had back to back sec titles, and played in another one and had a BCS title
NC in 1998. Then 3,4,2,5,3,3 loss seasons and no SEC titles. Better than LSU as a program in 2004?
quote:
Oklahoma- 3 conference titles and bcs title
Oklahoma was rolling during that time period and would have probably have been considered a top 5 program. But LSU has just beaten them in the NC game. So although historically they were considered a better program I don't think they were that far apart from LSU in 2004 in reality in terms of talent, facilities, etc.
quote:
USC- since 1993 6 conference titles and 2 national titles
From 1996 to 2001 they went 37-35. Their second-worst over any five-year span in history. Starting in 2001 with Carroll they went 6-6, 11-2,12-1,13-0. They were a better program historically but were re-emerging with Carrol at the same time LSU was with Saban. So they would be in the top 5 ballpark.
quote:
Do i need to go on?
Yes you need to go on. You named 5 programs 3 of which were not better programs than LSU in 2004.
And again, you are listing historical stuff. What matters at a program in win/loss record the last say 5 seasons, talent base, current roster, facilities, conference, etc...
Posted on 12/24/14 at 10:51 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
Just adding some of those concepts to our pro style, such as the underneath and middle pass game
We did these things just last year with an experienced QB in Mett. With inexperienced QB's, throwing over the middle tends to lead to interceptions as it's the most cluttered area on the field. As the experience of the quarterbacks grow, so will what is asked of them. They must show they cannot make the big mistake though.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 10:59 pm to nm1230
Double post
This post was edited on 12/24/14 at 11:01 pm
Posted on 12/24/14 at 10:59 pm to nm1230
quote:
So were they still a better program in 2004 than LSU?
Yes. From 1990-2004 UF had national title and 6 sec titles. In that time span lsu 2 sec titles and 1 national title.
quote:
Won a NC in 1999. But then 2,4,5,3,3 loss seasons with no top 10 finishes. Still a better program than LSU in 2004?
So they had losses just like every ine of Saban's seasons at lsu except 1. I cant believe youre even asking if FSU was a better program than lsu in 2005. The had just had 14 straight years of finishing top 5.
quote:
NC in 1998. Then 3,4,2,5,3,3 loss seasons and no SEC titles. Better than LSU as a program in 2004?
Yes. Lsu had not risen to top 5 status by 2005.
Oklahoma was without question a better program.
Ohio State was better without question.
USC was without question a better program.
You bash Miles for losing 3 games but when Saban lost at least 3 games every year but once, YOU CALL THAT A TOP 5 PROGRAM. That is laughable.
By 2005 lsu had won 10 games only 4 times in 40 years but yeah top 5 program.
How come when miles loses 3 games you blast him but saban loses 3 games every year but once and you call it a top 5 program. Do you really not see the hypocrisy?
This post was edited on 12/24/14 at 11:02 pm
Posted on 12/25/14 at 12:03 am to White Tiger
I would give anything to see just what GRUDEN could do, no question production would be off the charts compared to what they produce on offense now with all that talent. (makes you sick - what a tragedy)
Posted on 12/25/14 at 12:30 am to JaxTiger10
Why are you speaking historically? Why do you keep changing the teams? Earlier you listed Michigan. What criteria are you using? Better roster, recruiting base, facilities, etc..
I am saying what was in that building when Miles took it over in 2004 was better than all those other schools you listed with the exception of Oklahoma and USC.
What happened in 1993 didn't have a damn thing to do with what Miles took over. It was one year removed from a NC and had 2 SEC championships the previous 4 years.
I am saying what was in that building when Miles took it over in 2004 was better than all those other schools you listed with the exception of Oklahoma and USC.
What happened in 1993 didn't have a damn thing to do with what Miles took over. It was one year removed from a NC and had 2 SEC championships the previous 4 years.
Posted on 12/25/14 at 12:30 am to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
I guess they have nothing better to do than throw our the flame bait and sit back to watch how many jump on it.
Do they really hate a person they do not even know? Maybe their disappointment in the recent results is difficult to swallow given the lack of any apparent attempt to change things. The QB debacle is the perfect example of repeated futility on the part of CLM. Further, I do not understand the indignant responses along the lines of "the coaches cannot make the plays for the players...". Who ever said that the coaches did? But the coaches are the ones who brought said "inexperienced" players and put them in the games. The coaches are the only ones to blame for this. 100%.
When the team wins, they deserve the credit. I am one who is tired of Miles inept coaching inasmuch as said coaching has led to no significant team accomplishments the past 3 seasons. It is time he did something about that. I am no longer interested in his apologists' excuses. It has nothing to do with anything personal. I have no feelings for the man one way or another. He needs to win. It is time to fish or cut bait.
This post was edited on 12/25/14 at 12:33 am
Posted on 12/25/14 at 7:39 am to nm1230
Do you not see the hypocrisy?
Saban loses at least 3 games 5 out of 6 years= top 5 program
MILES has the best decade in the history of lsu football= in decline
Saban loses at least 3 games 5 out of 6 years= top 5 program
MILES has the best decade in the history of lsu football= in decline
This post was edited on 12/25/14 at 7:40 am
Posted on 12/25/14 at 8:50 am to JaxTiger10
quote:
pocrisy?
Saban loses at least 3 games 5 out of 6 years= top 5 program
MILES has the best decade in the history of lsu football= in decline
A) Saban built a program as he came in after a coach got canned. It isn;t the same situation Miles walked into so it is ridiculous to compare them in that that way but since you are.....
B) Saban Won 2 SEC titles and a NC in 5 years.
C) Miles has won 2 SEC titles and a NC in 10 years after taking over a team one year removed from a NC.
That is not hypocrisy. The last three years of Miles' tenure have been in decline 6-2, 5-3, 4-4.
No one is taking away what Miles has done but how many years in the rear view mirror is 2007 at this point? If you are cool with losing 3 games a year and not winning the west than that's great. Other fans have higher hopes I guess.
Most years 3 losses won't win the SEC and most years 2 losses won't win the NC but that doesn't take away 2001 or 2007.
Posted on 12/25/14 at 8:54 am to nm1230
Saban didnt build shite. anything. He walked into a program stocked with nfl talent.
Do i need to name all the nfl players he had on his 2000& 2001rosters?
Do i need to name all the nfl players he had on his 2000& 2001rosters?
This post was edited on 12/25/14 at 8:55 am
Posted on 12/25/14 at 8:57 am to nm1230
quote:
is taking away what Miles has done but how many years in the rear view mirror is 2007 at this point? If you are cool with losing 3 games a year and not winning the west than that's great. Other fans have higher hopes I guess.
We just won the sec title in 2011. In the last 3 seasons we finished #2,#12,#14. Far from the decline you and your ilk claim.
SABAN LOST AT LEAST 3 GAMES 5 OF 6 YEARS and those teams were stacked with nfl talent.
Posted on 12/25/14 at 9:00 am to JaxTiger10
Saban took over a team that had talent but had gone in the shitter. He had to rebuild it and establish a winning culture. Miles carries that on.
Posted on 12/25/14 at 9:06 am to JaxTiger10
Are you sure Saban coached at LSU 6 years?
Posted on 12/25/14 at 9:07 am to nm1230
quote:
Saban took over a team that had talent but had gone in the shitter. He had to rebuild it and establish a winning culture
Wait, so losing 3 games is a winning culture under Saban? Double standard much?
His 2000&2001 teams were just as, if not more loaded than miles 2005 team. Saban had all but given up on recruiting his last season here. So much so that Mikes wasnt even able to have a full class.
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