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Message
Midrange Jumpers: Who is taking and making the most midrange shots
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:16 pm
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:16 pm
very interesting post from r/NBA from a pels fan (i think it's one of you on here)
LINK
I would also like to point out that between 16 and 24 feet (so essentially long 2 point jumpers), Pels have taken 308 shots and are shooting around 42%. that compares to 475 of the same shot through the same mark last season shooting the same percentage. so they are cutting back on the stupid long jumpers
LINK
quote:
We are all familiar with the concept of Morey Ball and how midrange shots are the most inefficient shots in the game. Lets find out who is actually beating Morey Ball. The league average points per shot value is 0.994. This means every shot taken on any given night, you can expect to get .994 points from it, regardless of if it is a two or a three.
This means midrange shooters need to be better than 49.724% in order to be more efficient than the average shot. Only CP3 and Dirk are beating out Morey Ball for all of midrange, and only CP3, Dirk, and AD are succeeding in long twos.
I would also like to point out that between 16 and 24 feet (so essentially long 2 point jumpers), Pels have taken 308 shots and are shooting around 42%. that compares to 475 of the same shot through the same mark last season shooting the same percentage. so they are cutting back on the stupid long jumpers
This post was edited on 12/17/14 at 3:18 pm
4
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:17 pm to quail man
So he's really good at shooting the most inefficient shot in basketball...
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:19 pm to quail man
quote:
so they are cutting back on the stupid long jumpers
Jason Smith.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:20 pm to quail man
quote:
so they are cutting back on the stupid long jumpers
And have replaced them with short stupid layups
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:22 pm to TigerinATL
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:36 pm to quail man
Morey ball is overrated. Having guys who can shoot the midrange jumper at high percentage opens a ton of things on offense for the rest of the team.
eta from the comments:
eta from the comments:
This post was edited on 12/17/14 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:45 pm to RTR America
quote:
Morey ball is overrated
I don't think so. They certainly take it to the extreme, but shooting 3s opens up the court more than mid range. It's geometry- putting guys in corners and letting them shoot stretches a defense to a breaking point.
Mid range isn't useless. And having a guy who can hit it is a good thing. One dribble pull up, popping big, etc are all good skills.
But it should be an alternative shot, not the end result of an offense.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:46 pm to RTR America
quote:
Having guys who can shoot the midrange jumper at high percentage opens a ton of things on offense
This is true, but I think the premise of Morey ball is that the guys who can hit those shots at an adequate percentage are few and far between relative to spot up 3 point shooters and guys who can drive.
The midrange/deep 2 is only efficient if you hit it above a certain percentage. As the numbers bear out, only a handful of guys hit those shots above that percentage.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:49 pm to RTR America
13-14 2nd PPG 4th Off Eff
12-13 2nd PPG 6th Off Eff
Seems to be as good as any since Harden came to town. Only LAC and Miami were better both years.
12-13 2nd PPG 6th Off Eff
Seems to be as good as any since Harden came to town. Only LAC and Miami were better both years.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:52 pm to wallowinit
quote:
So he's really good at shooting the most inefficient shot in basketball...
This is where you have to allow for context. A long 2 absolutely provides spacing that a short range shot does not.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:53 pm to corndeaux
There is a difference. Taking 3's just to take 3's isn't the best way of handling things.
I'll hold my breath until a Morey ball style team makes it past the 1st round.
I'll hold my breath until a Morey ball style team makes it past the 1st round.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:53 pm to corndeaux
There is a difference. Taking 3's just to take 3's isn't the best way of handling things.
I'll hold my breath until a Morey ball style team makes it past the 1st round.
I'll hold my breath until a Morey ball style team makes it past the 1st round.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:53 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Jason Smith.
Definitely has something to do with it, but it seems that Jrue isn't taking as many, either.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:53 pm to quail man
quote:
well they are good layups
Some of the ones that Tyreke has taken are absolutely bad layups. He has toned it down a lot recently, thank jeebus.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:54 pm to corndeaux
quote:
I don't think so. They certainly take it to the extreme, but shooting 3s opens up the court more than mid range. It's geometry- putting guys in corners and letting them shoot stretches a defense to a breaking point.
Mid range isn't useless. And having a guy who can hit it is a good thing. One dribble pull up, popping big, etc are all good skills.
Mid Range Jumpers beat Morey Ball
Signed,
2014 NBA Playoffs
Posted on 12/17/14 at 4:03 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
Going through the top 10 of NBA offenses right now I don't think it is a coincidence that most of them have 1 or 2 guys that are good midrange shooters.
Dallas: Dirk & Monta
Toronto: Lowry
Clippers: CP3 & Blake
Cleveland: LeBron
Golden State: The exception, but they a lot of guys who can shoot them
Memphis: Gasol
Portland: LA
SAS: TP & Timmy
Atlanta: Horford
Dallas: Dirk & Monta
Toronto: Lowry
Clippers: CP3 & Blake
Cleveland: LeBron
Golden State: The exception, but they a lot of guys who can shoot them
Memphis: Gasol
Portland: LA
SAS: TP & Timmy
Atlanta: Horford
Posted on 12/17/14 at 4:03 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Mid Range Jumpers beat Morey Ball Signed, 2014 NBA Playoffs
I'm not as good with advanced metrics as alot of y'all are, so I'm sincerely asking...
Can you confirm this with data related to the Spurs run last year? Where were they predominantly shooting from? As a percentage, were they shooting a (roughly) equivilant number of mid range shots compared to 3's and shots around the rim?
Their ball movement was an absolute thing of beauty last playoffs, consistently generating a ton of open looks. Where were those looks from?
quote:
I'll hold my breath until a Morey ball style team makes it past the 1st round.
Poor player performance =/= A flawed system.
He was poor on the whole, no matter where his shots were coming from. And the point diff was still the tightest of any series, and against a team with a mid-range monster in LA. The first round problem is with James at the moment, not Moreys philosophy, IMO.
This post was edited on 12/17/14 at 4:08 pm
Posted on 12/17/14 at 4:05 pm to MSMHater
quote:
I'm not as good with advanced metrics as alot of y'all are, so I'm sincerely asking...
Can you confirm this with data related to the Spurs run last year?
TigerinATL may be able to find what you're looking for. I was talking specifically about Lamarcus Aldridge and Damian Lillard laying pipe in the 1st round.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 4:12 pm to MSMHater
The Spurs were 17th last season 3PA, 16th in % of total shots from 3, and were 9th in FG% from 16 ft < 3.
Top 10 teams last season in FG% 16 ft < 3:
Mavs
Pacers
Blazers
OKC
Knicks
Clippers
Hawks
Heat
Spurs
Warriors
Top 10 teams last season in FG% 16 ft < 3:
Mavs
Pacers
Blazers
OKC
Knicks
Clippers
Hawks
Heat
Spurs
Warriors
Posted on 12/17/14 at 4:21 pm to RTR America
quote:
I'll hold my breath until a Morey ball style team makes it past the 1st round
Oh. The RINGZ argument
Because San Antonio and Miami haven't had success playing a less extreme (like I pointed out in my first post) version of this offense. You and Galactic Inquisitor do realize the Blazers took the 3rd most 3s in the league last year? And they had the same number of 3PA as the Rockets in their playoff series?
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