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Started By
Message
Why all the hate for the toss dive?
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:05 am
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:05 am
I don't understand all the hate for the toss dive on this board. I get that our offense can be a bit vanilla at times, but why are we singling out this play? Years ago when we started running it I became enamored with it immediately, and it makes sense - toss the RB the ball so he has an extra second to survey the line and see where he can go, which holes he could hit or has to hit, or if he could bounce outside either direction. If the toss dive doesn't work it's because your RB has a lack of field vision, not because the play is inherently flawed, IMO. Not many RBs have great field vision which is why it's not run a lot, but schematically it is logical. Jeremy Hill busted some runs with it, and it's only a matter of time before Fournette breaks one IMO. I mean, i'm not saying that every run play should be a toss dive. Standard guts, cuts, dives, draws, sweeps, off-tackle runs, etc are effective also. I just don't understand the mentality of a lot of people that the toss dive is the scourge of the earth and should die a horrible death in a raging inferno. Okay that's all I got.
24
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:06 am to RelentlessRyan
Because we dont run short side options anymore. Had to move on to bitching about new things.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:09 am to harry coleman beast
I have no problem with the play.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:10 am to sjmabry
quote:
I have no problem with the play.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:11 am to RelentlessRyan
There is so much love for LF now that it may actually become our favorite play!
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:14 am to RelentlessRyan
Do you even play action pass, bro?
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:16 am to RelentlessRyan
Schematically it makes sense, but it's a "boring" run up the middle so people complain.
I would like to see us run some sort of play action off of it though.
I would like to see us run some sort of play action off of it though.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:17 am to RelentlessRyan
See my post from earlier. Of all of Fournette's carries against Florida, they ran 7 toss dives with him which resulted in 6 yards.
It seems like he, along with a few of the other backs are much more comfortable receiving a handoff. When they receive a handoff, they can keep their eyes downfield. When they receive a toss dive, they have to focus on receiving the toss dive, and then have to shift their focus down field.
Watch the video of all his carries against UF, he looked much more comfortable receiving a handoff vs the toss dive.
You also have the issue of a bad toss/bad catch.
It seems like he, along with a few of the other backs are much more comfortable receiving a handoff. When they receive a handoff, they can keep their eyes downfield. When they receive a toss dive, they have to focus on receiving the toss dive, and then have to shift their focus down field.
Watch the video of all his carries against UF, he looked much more comfortable receiving a handoff vs the toss dive.
You also have the issue of a bad toss/bad catch.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:18 am to Choupique19
quote:
Do you even play action pass, bro?
Toss to LF
Let him throw
????
Profit
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:18 am to DallasTiger45
Not fond of the play but any time the QB "tosses" the ball, there's a risk involved.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:19 am to harry coleman beast
quote:
Toss to Magee
Let him throw
????
Profit
fify
Nobody prepares for the left handed running backs.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:19 am to sjmabry
quote:me neither until they do the hurry up no huddle and run the same exact toss dive again for 1 yard.........one of these years I expect them to throw a pass.
I have no problem with the play.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:20 am to RelentlessRyan
Haven't seen alot of production from that play until vs Florida.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:22 am to RedTigerRulz
I think it's the fact that it's used so much and you can't play action pass off it....but mostly because it's used so much. the play itself isn't bad if it was incorporated into a system where OTHER plays are used in conjunction with it.
This post was edited on 10/15/14 at 10:23 am
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:22 am to GEAUXLPOST
quote:
See my post from earlier. Of all of Fournette's carries against Florida, they ran 7 toss dives with him which resulted in 6 yards. It seems like he, along with a few of the other backs are much more comfortable receiving a handoff. When they receive a handoff, they can keep their eyes downfield. When they receive a toss dive, they have to focus on receiving the toss dive, and then have to shift their focus down field. Watch the video of all his carries against UF, he looked much more comfortable receiving a handoff vs the toss dive. You also have the issue of a bad toss/bad catch.
This x10000000000
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:22 am to RelentlessRyan
We have been over this. LINK
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:23 am to bradybones24
I did like the Ridley to Peterson reverse off of the toss dive in '10 though!
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:28 am to RelentlessRyan
quote:
toss the RB the ball so he has an extra second to survey the line and see where he can go, which holes he could hit or has to hit, or if he could bounce outside either direction. If the toss dive doesn't work it's because your RB has a lack of field vision, not because the play is inherently flawed, IMO.
You just stated the flaw in your defense of it. It doesn't just give the rb an extra second. It also gives the defense extra time while the offense is still stuck in the backfield. It's a slow developing play that gives the defense extra time to read, react, and snuff out the play. It seems like it has a fairly low success rate, although I would be interested in seeing some actual statistics on that.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:28 am to RelentlessRyan
I don't hate it, but I don't like it either. While the RB supposedly gets a half second to see the line he also has to put his eyes on the ball. A handoff allows the RB to keep his eyes on the line while getting the handoff so I'm not convinced any extra time to survey the line is given to the RB on the toss. A straight handoff is less risky and still carries the element of play action pass or bootleg.
Posted on 10/15/14 at 10:29 am to GEAUXLPOST
quote:
When they receive a handoff, they can keep their eyes downfield. When they receive a toss dive, they have to focus on receiving the toss dive, and then have to shift their focus down field.
This. Plus the defense can also read it faster, so it works both ways. At least with a handoff there is the possibility of a fake.
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