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So I got two routers on my network now, but having speed issues

Posted on 7/28/14 at 2:14 pm
Posted by Napoleon
Kenna
Member since Dec 2007
69108 posts
Posted on 7/28/14 at 2:14 pm
I upgraded my router. Which I admit is not in the best place, but until the living room gets moved around, it's the easiest spot for it.

Anyway. I took my old Netgear and moved it upstairs.
I have the 2.4 ghz on channels 6 and 11 respectively
I have the 5ghz on channels 153 and 161.

Downstairs with the new Asus router I get 20-30 MBS down with no issue. Upstairs I get 5 bars on the Asus router in every room of the house, but little coverage in the master.

I moved the old router to the upstairs office area. Now I can get 3-4 mbs down in the master so some success.

But I realize if I turn the 2.4ghz off upstairs I get a MUCH faster connection in the master, like 15-20MBs.

BUT, not all devices seem to be able to use the 5ghz connection.

So I have to leave the 2.4 on.

My goal was to have the same SSID throughout the house with the same password and all. I get an easy fix would be to put the 5ghz on separate SSIDs.

But I'm thinking there is possibly some setting changes I can make.
Or would having 2 or even 4 SSIDs be the way to go??

I really wanted one so I could move about the house.

New to this. I do have the Primary router DHCIP on, and off on the secondary and the secondary is hooked up through the LAN not the WAN.

Primary = Asus RT-AC56U
Secondary = Netgear WNDR3700
Posted by ILikeLSUToo
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2008
18018 posts
Posted on 7/28/14 at 2:29 pm to
If you put the 2.4 and 5 GHz bands on separate SSIDs, do you get full coverage throughout the house on every device with a 5Ghz-capable adapter? If so, I don't see the problem with putting the two bands on separate SSIDs, keeping your 2.4GHz-only devices on the 2.4GHz SSID, and your 5GHz-capable devices on the 5GHz SSID.

When both bands use the same SSID, your device prioritizes the bands. Obviously the 2.4GHz-only adapters will only use that band. For the dual-band adapters, it will generally only prefer 5GHz when the signal strength is better than the 2.4GHz, because the 2.4GHz has a longer range, assuming there is no interference. The only benefit of 5GHz is the lack of interference with the many devices that use 2.4GHz. Of course, band hopping is only a temporary fix, since the problem returns when everything starts using 5Ghz.

If you list your devices, which routers/bands they connect to, and in what rooms they are performing poorly, that would give me a better understanding of what's happening. At a minimum, though, I recommend separating the SSIDs by band so you can see where your connectivity is poorest on each band and each device.
This post was edited on 7/28/14 at 2:33 pm
Posted by BobRoss
Member since Jun 2014
1694 posts
Posted on 7/28/14 at 2:39 pm to
DDWRT
Posted by Napoleon
Kenna
Member since Dec 2007
69108 posts
Posted on 7/28/14 at 2:40 pm to
working on that.

right now It's just all my wired stuff (three PCs, Cirectv, TV, Printer and all wired in the LAN.

So far I have been testing with a 2.4ghz phone and a 5ghz capable tablet.

I just tested with the new settings and with the 2.4 off on the big router and my speed is pretty good. But now I need to check how the 2.4 devics do downstairs.

I may just split them up by bands.
Posted by ILikeLSUToo
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2008
18018 posts
Posted on 7/28/14 at 2:48 pm to
Also, are you saying that the Netgear and ASUS are currently using the same SSID? (and the Netgear is set up as an access point, correct?) In that case, your dual-band client adapters are trying to prioritize channels and bands, and even though they are technically supposed to pick the best one, there isn't really any evidence that the algorithm is 100% effective in every network environment on every client. Do you know for sure what channel and band is being used when you have connectivity issues in the master bedroom? The client adapter won't necessarily connect to the "best" channel, but rather switch to a different channel when the current one is no longer serviceable. It could be using the router with the poorest throughput, simply because that was its last configuration and it's still receiving packets, despite it being a fraction of the throughput of another nearby channel.
Posted by drizztiger
Deal With it!
Member since Mar 2007
37117 posts
Posted on 7/28/14 at 5:57 pm to
quote:

It could be using the router with the poorest throughput, simply because that was its last configuration and it's still receiving packets, despite it being a fraction of the throughput of another nearby channel.
This.

In general, if a device has a signal, it's going to keep using the original connection. Let's use you're phone as an example. You connect it where you get the strongest signal and speed. All good. Now you walk your phone to a different area and expect it to pick up the better signal. Nope. It's going to keep using the degraded signal from original source. Same goes with 5ghz and 2.4ghz on same SSID. You figure you're going to roam, no issues. Nope. You connect your device where 5ghz is the strongest signal and it stays on 5ghz. Then when you're out of range it switches to 2.4ghz. Okay cool. But when you're back in range of 5ghz, does it switch back? Most likely not going to happen.

Setting up roaming in my experience requires higher end equipment designed for that purpose.

In my house, I run separate SSIDs for 5 and 2.4. Switching over a network an a phone or laptop takes less than 10 seconds. For your wired devices you shouldn't have a problem.
Posted by Napoleon
Kenna
Member since Dec 2007
69108 posts
Posted on 7/28/14 at 6:16 pm to
quote:

In my house, I run separate SSIDs for 5 and 2.4. Switching over a network an a phone or laptop takes less than 10 seconds. For your wired devices you shouldn't have a problem.



I'm trying that now. Teo routers. The netgear being the secondary hooked up via LAN to the primary router. The primary is set to recognize the secondary. The secondary has the same SSID. Now both have the same 2.4ssid and 5 ssid.

Will see how this works. I don't want four SSIDs.
Everything I read though said my set up should have worked good.
Posted by ILikeLSUToo
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2008
18018 posts
Posted on 7/28/14 at 11:10 pm to
quote:

Will see how this works. I don't want four SSIDs.
Everything I read though said my set up should have worked good.



The setup should have worked well in theory, but only under the most ideal circumstances, where the client adapters handle roaming properly and/or the client is in an area where it cannot even hold a reliable connection with one of the routers. The problem you're having is that the adapters don't know when to switch, because there is enough overlap in the signals of the two routers that the client sees no reason to switch, because the one it's on is still sending and receiving packets. As we said, the clients aren't looking for the best signal, only the one that's serviceable.

Think of it this way: Let's say you have 4 SSIDs (which is what you want to avoid I know). You want to use your tablet. This tablet has connected to all four of those SSIDs at some point and remembers them (and can therefore connect to them automatically). You start off by connecting to the 5Ghz band on your ASUS, the router nearest to you at the time. Then you move to a part of the house where the Asus 2.4Ghz would provide higher throughput because it's capable of longer ranges, and in this area of the house, you can tell your internet is slowing down. Then you go upstairs to sit 3 feet away from your Netgear. Your connection is now slow as hell, and you don't know why. You check to see what SSID you're connected to. It's the ASUS 5GHz, and has been the entire time. That's because you never got fully out of range to the point that your client would drop the connection and automatically connect to one of the other 3 SSIDs it remembers. Even with a unified SSID, most (if not all) of your clients are behaving this way, always prioritizing its most recently connected channel. The client adapter algorithm is not running speed tests, measuring packet rates, or even paying attention to throughput to a certain extent; it's simply scanning for available channels and saying, "this is the most recent one I connected to, and I see it, so I'm gonna connect to it."

If splitting the SSIDs by band allows all your devices to get seamless, reliable coverage, you have your solution. If you're still seeing degrading throughput/coverage when you move from one part of the house to another with the same device, you now know why. The solution is splitting SSIDs by both router and band.

Also, how big is your house? In a lot of cases, a single well-placed router can be the simplest solution. Last year, my dad asked me to help him get full coverage in his house with a Linksys EA4500 (dual band N900). His house is 6000 Sq ft (my parents are retired and living the OT Baller life). It has three floors, and a separate poolhouse area. There's a staircase that starts in a center spot of the house, and if you look up from the bottom of the stairs, you can see the ceiling of the second floor. It was the perfect spot. I demonstrated its awesomeness. Only spotty area was the poolhouse, which could've been solved with an AP mounted by a pool-facing window of the second floor. But nope, didn't want a router on the ceiling. Ultimately, it was the only spot that had full reliable coverage in the main house, so now he's got the house wired like an office building with Cat6, and a couple of APs positioned in various parts of the house.
Posted by Casty McBoozer
your mom's fat arse
Member since Sep 2005
35495 posts
Posted on 7/29/14 at 8:33 am to
Sounds like you need a couple of Unifi APs.
Posted by tigersnipen
Member since Dec 2006
2085 posts
Posted on 7/29/14 at 8:48 am to
Flash dd - wrt and make all but your main one an access point.
Posted by guedeaux
Tardis
Member since Jan 2008
13611 posts
Posted on 7/29/14 at 8:52 am to
quote:

Flash dd - wrt and make all but your main one an access point.


I was messing with this last night. I was able to get the client set up and my phone would switch to whichever router was closest, but I could not get an internet connection through the client. I may have to start a thread asking for help this afternoon when I get back to my house.

DD-WRT is pretty intense for a non-technical person
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