Page 1
Page 1
Started By
Message
locked post

Is it unconstitutional to be anti-capital punishment due to religion?

Posted on 7/10/14 at 8:56 pm
Posted by House_of Cards
Pascagoula, MS
Member since Dec 2013
3927 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 8:56 pm
I am having another debate with a liberal friend of mine, but here we disagree. I am conservative, but anti death penalty...although I wish prison was harder. He is pro-death penalty. I told him because of my Catholic faith I am against it, which he said is weakness in politics and shows that I could not think independently. Also, he said people who use religion as a crutch as anti-Constitutionalists who cite religion in decision making.

Thoughts?
Posted by Antonio Moss
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
48319 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 8:58 pm to
quote:

Thoughts


Your friend isn't very smart.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
71146 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:03 pm to
quote:

Also, he said people who use religion as a crutch as anti-Constitutionalists who cite religion in decision making.


Too bad for him that the Constitution explicitly grants freedom of religion.

He's the weak-minded person using a crutch. He simply worships a different god (government).
Posted by catholictigerfan
Member since Oct 2009
56011 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:05 pm to
quote:

Thoughts?


1) his argument against you using religion is a double standard, because I bet he would be against certain things because religious people hold them.
2) As long as the country does require Christians to pay for the death penalty there is no constitutional issue.
3) Just to clarify something about Church teaching. The Church doesn't take an official stance on the death penalty, but the latest papal statement appears to be moving in the direction of no more death penalty. BUT there are some Catholic theologians believe that the DP is ok for Catholics to hold (I've seen some argue it on here, I've also wasted hours on a Catholic message board debating this ). there is nothing wrong with your stance I agree with you, but don't drop the the Catholic Church says the DP is not moral, because they actually don't say that.

Posted by Hog on the Hill
AR
Member since Jun 2009
13389 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:09 pm to
There's nothing unconstitutional about an individual's decision-making being based on religious values. Your friend needs to learn more about the first amendment and separation of church and state.

edit: and for the record I'm a left-leaning atheist who really does not like religion intermingling with government, so if I were biased on this, it would be toward your friend's perspective. But he's just wrong
This post was edited on 7/10/14 at 9:12 pm
Posted by House_of Cards
Pascagoula, MS
Member since Dec 2013
3927 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:11 pm to
I honestly did not know the Catholic Church did not have an official position. It is just something I have thought long and hard about and just cannot support...like I say, though, I wish prison was just much harder.
Posted by Mike da Tigah
Bravo Romeo Lima Alpha
Member since Feb 2005
58890 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:13 pm to
quote:

shows that I could not think independently



WTF does that even mean?

Independently from what? Your own conscience? People are full of their own bullshite.

Posted by Roger Klarvin
DFW
Member since Nov 2012
46511 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:14 pm to
Your friend has the dumb
Posted by SundayFunday
Member since Sep 2011
9299 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:17 pm to
Im pretty sure your friend's words are not his own. Ask him who's ideas he's claiming are his own too.
Posted by Antonio Moss
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
48319 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:28 pm to
quote:

I honestly did not know the Catholic Church did not have an official position. It is just something I have thought long and hard about and just cannot support...like I say, though, I wish prison was just much harder.


The Catholic Church does have an official position. I'm not sure where that came from. The Church seeks to only allow the death penalty in situations when no other means to protect society is available
Posted by House_of Cards
Pascagoula, MS
Member since Dec 2013
3927 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:19 pm to
quote:

The Church seeks to only allow the death penalty in situations when no other means to protect society is available


This may be a dumb question, but with the prison system, is there ever a time where life in prison does not protect society?
Posted by Mid Iowa Tiger
Undisclosed Secure Location
Member since Feb 2008
18672 posts
Posted on 7/11/14 at 5:51 am to
quote:

The Church doesn't take an official stance on the death penalty,



Hey CTF. Check your catechism, the Catholi church does have an official stance. It is ok under certain circumstances, though with today's incarceration capabilities those would be extremely rare.
Posted by SpidermanTUba
my house
Member since May 2004
36128 posts
Posted on 7/11/14 at 5:55 am to
quote:

although I wish prison was harder.


You seriously don't think Angola is hard enough?

quote:

I told him because of my Catholic faith I am against it, which he said is weakness in politics and shows that I could not think independently. Also, he said people who use religion as a crutch as anti-Constitutionalists who cite religion in decision making.



A person's morals always informs their politics. I qualify this statement with a) that shouldn't be the only factor and b) the question is where to draw the line between which morals government should enforce and which it should leave be.

EDIT - Also, with top-down religions like the Catholic Church, I would question the degree to which - say, a SCOTUS justice's - morals are uninformed by their own conscience vs. the Church hierarchy.

I'm personally against the death penalty not because I think it is immoral to execute someone for cold blooded murder - but because a) any inequities in the justice system are magnified when death is involved, the penalty is not applied fairly and evenly and I don't think it ever could be b) the justice system does make mistakes, the thought of executing an innocent person is hard to bear. That being said, when a guilty person is executed for a cold blooded murder - I don't lose sleep over it.
This post was edited on 7/11/14 at 5:58 am
Posted by Mid Iowa Tiger
Undisclosed Secure Location
Member since Feb 2008
18672 posts
Posted on 7/11/14 at 6:13 am to
quote:

This may be a dumb question, but with the prison system, is there ever a time where life in prison does not protect society?


The most recent case I can think of is the blind sheik who continued to plan terror attacks by using his attorney as a courier. He was in federal prison in New York but was able to continue to be a risk to society. I think in that scenario the death penalty is still moral as a last resort to keeping society safe.

Posted by UGATiger26
Jacksonville, FL
Member since Dec 2009
9044 posts
Posted on 7/11/14 at 6:36 am to
quote:

Is it unconstitutional to be anti-capital punishment due to religion?


quote:

I told him because of my Catholic faith I am against it, which he said is weakness in politics and shows that I could not think independently


Wait....your friend thinks it's unconstitutional to hold a certain belief about something?

Please tell me I'm misunderstanding. If not, your friend is dumb, and you should cease all further communication with him.

Perhaps you could ask him to point out in the Constitution where it endorses the death penalty.
Posted by themunch
Earth. maybe
Member since Jan 2007
64666 posts
Posted on 7/11/14 at 6:58 am to
quote:

.your friend thinks it's unconstitutional to hold a certain belief about something?


I believe this thought process is growing among the populous. It is now not a good thing to let your personal doctrines you subscribe to enter into your decision making as far as governing and law. If you hold religious beliefs and let them influence your choices in voting on laws being proposed, you are wrong and it is Unconstitutional to do so.

At some level, religion has always been considered in politics and voting for government positions as President and Congress. Even on local levels, I am sure it has been prevalent.
Posted by UGATiger26
Jacksonville, FL
Member since Dec 2009
9044 posts
Posted on 7/11/14 at 7:04 am to
quote:

I believe this thought process is growing among the populous. It is now not a good thing to let your personal doctrines you subscribe to enter into your decision making as far as governing and law. If you hold religious beliefs and let them influence your choices in voting on laws being proposed, you are wrong and it is Unconstitutional to do so.

At some level, religion has always been considered in politics and voting for government positions as President and Congress. Even on local levels, I am sure it has been prevalent.


Indeed. And I would venture as to say a large majority of our laws are based on some concept of morality that, at some point in time, was rooted in religious doctrine.

I believe the problem stems from continuing government expansion and entanglement in our lives. Every nook and cranny that the government seeps into means religious beliefs must be smashed out in those areas.

Just look at the Hobby Lobby case. It was a win for religious freedom, but it had to be fought tooth and nail to be won.
This post was edited on 7/11/14 at 7:06 am
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
84874 posts
Posted on 7/11/14 at 7:07 am to
quote:

although I wish prison was harder.


Posted by dante
Kingwood, TX
Member since Mar 2006
10669 posts
Posted on 7/11/14 at 7:20 am to
quote:

He is pro-death penalty.
quote:

debate with a liberal friend
if he is pro-choice at least he is "some what" consistent. Most Libs are pro-choice and anti-death penalty, which has never made sense to me.
first pageprev pagePage 1 of 1Next pagelast page
refresh

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram