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Started By
Message
Is it unconstitutional to be anti-capital punishment due to religion?
Posted on 7/10/14 at 8:56 pm
Posted on 7/10/14 at 8:56 pm
I am having another debate with a liberal friend of mine, but here we disagree. I am conservative, but anti death penalty...although I wish prison was harder. He is pro-death penalty. I told him because of my Catholic faith I am against it, which he said is weakness in politics and shows that I could not think independently. Also, he said people who use religion as a crutch as anti-Constitutionalists who cite religion in decision making.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Posted on 7/10/14 at 8:58 pm to House_of Cards
quote:
Thoughts
Your friend isn't very smart.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:03 pm to House_of Cards
quote:
Also, he said people who use religion as a crutch as anti-Constitutionalists who cite religion in decision making.
Too bad for him that the Constitution explicitly grants freedom of religion.
He's the weak-minded person using a crutch. He simply worships a different god (government).
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:05 pm to House_of Cards
quote:
Thoughts?
1) his argument against you using religion is a double standard, because I bet he would be against certain things because religious people hold them.
2) As long as the country does require Christians to pay for the death penalty there is no constitutional issue.
3) Just to clarify something about Church teaching. The Church doesn't take an official stance on the death penalty, but the latest papal statement appears to be moving in the direction of no more death penalty. BUT there are some Catholic theologians believe that the DP is ok for Catholics to hold (I've seen some argue it on here, I've also wasted hours on a Catholic message board debating this ). there is nothing wrong with your stance I agree with you, but don't drop the the Catholic Church says the DP is not moral, because they actually don't say that.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:09 pm to House_of Cards
There's nothing unconstitutional about an individual's decision-making being based on religious values. Your friend needs to learn more about the first amendment and separation of church and state.
edit: and for the record I'm a left-leaning atheist who really does not like religion intermingling with government, so if I were biased on this, it would be toward your friend's perspective. But he's just wrong
edit: and for the record I'm a left-leaning atheist who really does not like religion intermingling with government, so if I were biased on this, it would be toward your friend's perspective. But he's just wrong
This post was edited on 7/10/14 at 9:12 pm
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:11 pm to catholictigerfan
I honestly did not know the Catholic Church did not have an official position. It is just something I have thought long and hard about and just cannot support...like I say, though, I wish prison was just much harder.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:13 pm to House_of Cards
quote:
shows that I could not think independently
WTF does that even mean?
Independently from what? Your own conscience? People are full of their own bullshite.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:14 pm to House_of Cards
Your friend has the dumb
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:17 pm to House_of Cards
Im pretty sure your friend's words are not his own. Ask him who's ideas he's claiming are his own too.
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:28 pm to House_of Cards
quote:
I honestly did not know the Catholic Church did not have an official position. It is just something I have thought long and hard about and just cannot support...like I say, though, I wish prison was just much harder.
The Catholic Church does have an official position. I'm not sure where that came from. The Church seeks to only allow the death penalty in situations when no other means to protect society is available
Posted on 7/10/14 at 10:19 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
The Church seeks to only allow the death penalty in situations when no other means to protect society is available
This may be a dumb question, but with the prison system, is there ever a time where life in prison does not protect society?
Posted on 7/11/14 at 5:51 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
The Church doesn't take an official stance on the death penalty,
Hey CTF. Check your catechism, the Catholi church does have an official stance. It is ok under certain circumstances, though with today's incarceration capabilities those would be extremely rare.
Posted on 7/11/14 at 5:55 am to House_of Cards
quote:
although I wish prison was harder.
You seriously don't think Angola is hard enough?
quote:
I told him because of my Catholic faith I am against it, which he said is weakness in politics and shows that I could not think independently. Also, he said people who use religion as a crutch as anti-Constitutionalists who cite religion in decision making.
A person's morals always informs their politics. I qualify this statement with a) that shouldn't be the only factor and b) the question is where to draw the line between which morals government should enforce and which it should leave be.
EDIT - Also, with top-down religions like the Catholic Church, I would question the degree to which - say, a SCOTUS justice's - morals are uninformed by their own conscience vs. the Church hierarchy.
I'm personally against the death penalty not because I think it is immoral to execute someone for cold blooded murder - but because a) any inequities in the justice system are magnified when death is involved, the penalty is not applied fairly and evenly and I don't think it ever could be b) the justice system does make mistakes, the thought of executing an innocent person is hard to bear. That being said, when a guilty person is executed for a cold blooded murder - I don't lose sleep over it.
This post was edited on 7/11/14 at 5:58 am
Posted on 7/11/14 at 6:13 am to House_of Cards
quote:
This may be a dumb question, but with the prison system, is there ever a time where life in prison does not protect society?
The most recent case I can think of is the blind sheik who continued to plan terror attacks by using his attorney as a courier. He was in federal prison in New York but was able to continue to be a risk to society. I think in that scenario the death penalty is still moral as a last resort to keeping society safe.
Posted on 7/11/14 at 6:36 am to House_of Cards
quote:
Is it unconstitutional to be anti-capital punishment due to religion?
quote:
I told him because of my Catholic faith I am against it, which he said is weakness in politics and shows that I could not think independently
Wait....your friend thinks it's unconstitutional to hold a certain belief about something?
Please tell me I'm misunderstanding. If not, your friend is dumb, and you should cease all further communication with him.
Perhaps you could ask him to point out in the Constitution where it endorses the death penalty.
Posted on 7/11/14 at 6:58 am to UGATiger26
quote:
.your friend thinks it's unconstitutional to hold a certain belief about something?
I believe this thought process is growing among the populous. It is now not a good thing to let your personal doctrines you subscribe to enter into your decision making as far as governing and law. If you hold religious beliefs and let them influence your choices in voting on laws being proposed, you are wrong and it is Unconstitutional to do so.
At some level, religion has always been considered in politics and voting for government positions as President and Congress. Even on local levels, I am sure it has been prevalent.
Posted on 7/11/14 at 7:04 am to themunch
quote:
I believe this thought process is growing among the populous. It is now not a good thing to let your personal doctrines you subscribe to enter into your decision making as far as governing and law. If you hold religious beliefs and let them influence your choices in voting on laws being proposed, you are wrong and it is Unconstitutional to do so.
At some level, religion has always been considered in politics and voting for government positions as President and Congress. Even on local levels, I am sure it has been prevalent.
Indeed. And I would venture as to say a large majority of our laws are based on some concept of morality that, at some point in time, was rooted in religious doctrine.
I believe the problem stems from continuing government expansion and entanglement in our lives. Every nook and cranny that the government seeps into means religious beliefs must be smashed out in those areas.
Just look at the Hobby Lobby case. It was a win for religious freedom, but it had to be fought tooth and nail to be won.
This post was edited on 7/11/14 at 7:06 am
Posted on 7/11/14 at 7:07 am to House_of Cards
quote:
although I wish prison was harder.
Posted on 7/11/14 at 7:20 am to House_of Cards
quote:
He is pro-death penalty.
quote:if he is pro-choice at least he is "some what" consistent. Most Libs are pro-choice and anti-death penalty, which has never made sense to me.
debate with a liberal friend
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