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Great article on Ibaka, Harden, and the Thunder by Zach Lowe
Posted on 5/29/14 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 5/29/14 at 2:45 pm
Been saying this since BEFORE the Thunder traded Harden:
Also fascinating to see that 80% of the execs thought the Thunder chose correctly. Albeit no one knew how good Harden was going to be when given his own team:
He then goes on to discuss the pros and cons of what keeping and not keeping Harden looked/looks like. While digging into the specifics of the finances, luxury tax, etc. Good stuff:
LINK
Eta: :nb4RocketTardsMuddyingThisThread:
quote:
Harden is an offense-oriented player who needs the ball, and the Thunder already had two of those in Russell Westbrook and Durant. Harden’s skills were at least somewhat redundant, even though the team gradually found ways for all three to play off of each other. Ibaka is a defense-oriented rim protector, and the Thunder had no one like him.
Also fascinating to see that 80% of the execs thought the Thunder chose correctly. Albeit no one knew how good Harden was going to be when given his own team:
quote:
In reporting on the Harden trade nearly two years ago, I estimated that a minority of NBA executives with whom I spoke — maybe 20 percent — thought the Thunder had chosen incorrectly.
He then goes on to discuss the pros and cons of what keeping and not keeping Harden looked/looks like. While digging into the specifics of the finances, luxury tax, etc. Good stuff:
LINK
Eta: :nb4RocketTardsMuddyingThisThread:
This post was edited on 5/29/14 at 2:48 pm
10
Posted on 5/29/14 at 2:48 pm to okietiger
Read it a few minutes ago. They couldn't have predicted the salary cap being what it is, but given the present reality, damn. Keeping all four with have been huge, especially if Harden learned to how play D.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 2:50 pm to Matisyeezy
Harden wasn't going to play D. He just was never going to do it.
And I think a big part of Harden's leap forward is the fact he's now the main guy on a team. He might not have gone much further than he did his last season with the Thunder had he stayed with OKC.
I also have to ask: if they keep Ibaka and Harden, and don't win a championship, then what do you do? You are completely strapped to 4 players with no wiggle room. Yikes.
And I think a big part of Harden's leap forward is the fact he's now the main guy on a team. He might not have gone much further than he did his last season with the Thunder had he stayed with OKC.
I also have to ask: if they keep Ibaka and Harden, and don't win a championship, then what do you do? You are completely strapped to 4 players with no wiggle room. Yikes.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 2:53 pm to Matisyeezy
quote:
Harden learned to how play D.
He never will. It's about effort more than anything and he isn't even willing.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 2:55 pm to WITNESS23
The argument in Houston is that he doesn't play D because he's too tired after carrying the offensive load on his back.
My question: what was his excuse in OKC?
My question: what was his excuse in OKC?
Posted on 5/29/14 at 2:56 pm to okietiger
Didn't have time to read the article yet, but 2 things:
1. Wouldn't it have only cost OKC something like $4mil more total to keep Harden, i think that was how far their offer was from a max deal?
2. The bigger issue was what they got for Harden, which is now, not much to show for it.
1. Wouldn't it have only cost OKC something like $4mil more total to keep Harden, i think that was how far their offer was from a max deal?
2. The bigger issue was what they got for Harden, which is now, not much to show for it.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 2:57 pm to shel311
Bookmark the article and go read it later. He looks at all angles of it and specifically answers those 2 points. He does a better job than I will be able to from my iphone 
Posted on 5/29/14 at 2:58 pm to okietiger
quote:Good to hear, that's perfect actually.
Bookmark the article and go read it later. He looks at all angles of it and specifically answers those 2 points. He does a better job than I will be able to from my iphone
I probably was never going to read it to be honest LOL. But i'll actually take a look now, he probably will shed some light on stuff I didn't know, Lowe is great.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 2:58 pm to okietiger
Zach Lowe may be the best NBA writer alive.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 2:58 pm to okietiger
I agree that at the time, choosing Ibaka was the right move. No one knew what harden would become or that the cap situation would change so much. And they still might've made the right call. I tend to think given their roster, Ibaka is more valuable to them than Harden would be. My problem is the trade they did. Harden was 23 and had superstar potential. They got Kevin Martin for a year, Jeremy Lamb, and 2 first rounders, right? Just feel like they traded harden for 50 cents on the dollar.
They still are going to be perennial title contenders. I think they'll win some. But I think had they executed a better trade, they could be a dynasty
They still are going to be perennial title contenders. I think they'll win some. But I think had they executed a better trade, they could be a dynasty
Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:01 pm to okietiger
OKC would have won the title last season had they kept Harden. There's not much doubt in my mind at all.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:05 pm to Tigerfan56
Harden has been better than anyone thought and the cap/tax rules changed without any heads up. That sucks.
BUT
The Thunder very well may end up being just fine long term due to Steven Adams, Lamb, and flexibility. Consider this: Adams is leading the NBA in blocks per 48 this postseason. Couple that with Ibaka being 3rd and that's just absurd. Lamb has been up and down but there's still plenty of hope he can be bench help. Plus, Reggie Jackson would never have had the opportunity to shine with Harden in OKC.
Spooky to see Harden go and do so well, but I get why OKC did it. And I'm a homer, love Sam Presti, and choose to remain glass half-full on it.
BUT
The Thunder very well may end up being just fine long term due to Steven Adams, Lamb, and flexibility. Consider this: Adams is leading the NBA in blocks per 48 this postseason. Couple that with Ibaka being 3rd and that's just absurd. Lamb has been up and down but there's still plenty of hope he can be bench help. Plus, Reggie Jackson would never have had the opportunity to shine with Harden in OKC.
Spooky to see Harden go and do so well, but I get why OKC did it. And I'm a homer, love Sam Presti, and choose to remain glass half-full on it.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:10 pm to okietiger
Should have amnestied Perkins. I have to say after watching Harden each game this playoffs, I'm not nearly as high on him as before.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:15 pm to TheWalrus
I've been on Perkins as much as anybody, but the fact is he still has value on defense. He played well against Randolph in round 1, basically took Deondre Jordan out of round 2, and has been good the past 2 games vs Duncan.
He's definitely overpaid though.
He's definitely overpaid though.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:16 pm to okietiger
quote:
Consider this: Adams is leading the NBA in blocks per 48 this postseason.
Consider that during the regular season he had more fouls than FGs.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:19 pm to okietiger
I enjoy Lowe's work, he takes a very reasonable approach to things
Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:20 pm to okietiger
quote:
Plus, Reggie Jackson would never have had the opportunity to shine with Harden in OKC
With Harden you don't need Reggie
To address your earlier question, who can say whether Harden would have continued to progress? I'd think he would have, but probably not with the drastic leap we've seen now that he's "the man."
No friggin' clue about his halfass D. I agree it's largely effort related. He needs to get over himself. If he wants to be a superstar he needs to realize that's pretty much a two way commitment unless you're someone like 'Melo.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:23 pm to Matisyeezy
quote:
To address your earlier question, who can say whether Harden would have continued to progress? I'd think he would have, but probably not with the drastic leap we've seen now that he's "the man."
I just don't see any way he would have progressed much more whole being only the 3rd scoring option vs being the main guy in Houston.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:28 pm to okietiger
Efficiency, I'd say. Defense
Look at Tony Parker/Manu/Timmy. Earlier in their career I guess Parker would have been considered 3rd banana (you could maybe make an argument for Manu, maybe). I'd say his game has matured nicely.
It's not unthinkable for him to have continued to grow as a player.
Look at Tony Parker/Manu/Timmy. Earlier in their career I guess Parker would have been considered 3rd banana (you could maybe make an argument for Manu, maybe). I'd say his game has matured nicely.
It's not unthinkable for him to have continued to grow as a player.
Posted on 5/29/14 at 3:40 pm to Boomshockalocka
quote:
There's not much doubt in my mind at all.
Well That's just stupid. Heat were scary good last year and so were the Spurs.
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