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Message
Annual review & pay question (engineering)
Posted on 3/14/14 at 2:12 pm
Posted on 3/14/14 at 2:12 pm
The Background: So I work for a small full service engineering firm right outside NYC. My work is mostly structural, though because we also offer Mechanical, Electrical, and Plumbing (MEP), I often help design sprinkler and plumbing systems. I am the only one on staff that does structural and MEP work (my degree is in civil).
The scenario: I was laid off from previous engineering firm due to lack of work. When I first started at present firm, my rate was very low for my experience (like 15k less than it should be). My annual review comes up and I get above average review (7 of 10, 5 being satisfactory, and 10 being outstanding). Immediately after review I am told money would be handled separately, and I would need another sit down meeting. I asked when that would be, was told "we will let you know".
The Question: how long do you wait before you force the issue?
The scenario: I was laid off from previous engineering firm due to lack of work. When I first started at present firm, my rate was very low for my experience (like 15k less than it should be). My annual review comes up and I get above average review (7 of 10, 5 being satisfactory, and 10 being outstanding). Immediately after review I am told money would be handled separately, and I would need another sit down meeting. I asked when that would be, was told "we will let you know".
The Question: how long do you wait before you force the issue?
12
Posted on 3/14/14 at 2:15 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
The Question: how long do you wait before you force the issue?
I wouldn't "force" the issue until they actually tell you "no raise", or not a satisfactory raise.
Just kind of keep bringing it up, not forcefully, just don't let them blow it off.
Edit: Usually those kind of statements are for one of two reasons.
#1 - They don't want to give you a raise so they try to blow it off and hope you don't care enough to follow up on the issue.
#2 - Bureaucracy, different people having to sign-off or approve of all salary issues.
This post was edited on 3/14/14 at 2:19 pm
Posted on 3/14/14 at 2:17 pm to NYNolaguy1
sounds like they are waiting on some contracts to come through before they know exactly what they have available. my guess is if not enough come through then there will be layoffs.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 2:20 pm to NYNolaguy1
I would ask for the meeting. If they can't grant you a meeting, then WTF are you not looking somewhere else
You need to show them in numbers what you are worth to the company.
You need to prove that by you handling multiple jobs you are saving them xnumber of dollars.
You need to show them in numbers what you are worth to the company.
You need to prove that by you handling multiple jobs you are saving them xnumber of dollars.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 2:23 pm to LSUnation78
quote:
#1 - They don't want to give you a raise so they try to blow it off and hope you don't care enough to follow up on the issue.
I am thinking this is it. I know we have work in the pipeline, so I doubt it is a lack of work thing. I am prepared to find work elsewhere to get more money, it's just I'd like to do it on my terms.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 2:24 pm to NYNolaguy1
i have seen what waiting and not pushing the issue does...imo push the issue. and if you are looking for work, LA is booming. With your sprinkler background you could get work tommorrow down here with that alone.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 2:26 pm to NYNolaguy1
At your age, just worry about your job. The money will come later.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 2:26 pm to NYNolaguy1
How hard is it for them to grant you a meeting?
I mean frick, are they scared to tell you no? Push the issue. You won't get fired for requesting a meeting. And if you do, you dont need to be working there anyway.
I mean frick, are they scared to tell you no? Push the issue. You won't get fired for requesting a meeting. And if you do, you dont need to be working there anyway.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 2:27 pm to NYNolaguy1
If you force the issue you better be ready to walk. Because there's some other guy hoping to make 15k below his value instead of zero.
Sorry, but once you take a cut it generally sticks.
Sorry, but once you take a cut it generally sticks.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 2:34 pm to NYNolaguy1
1. Are you making more now than your previous job?
2. Give then 2 weeks and request a sit down to discuss pay.
2. Give then 2 weeks and request a sit down to discuss pay.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 2:35 pm to NYNolaguy1
Ask for the meeting. If you continue to get blown off, look for another job. I you can't find one, you are worth what they want to pay you. If you find a better paying job you have leverage.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 5:53 pm to dafuqusay
quote:
1. Are you making more now than your previous job? 2. Give then 2 weeks and request a sit down to discuss pay.
I am making less now than I was previously. In addition I have increased commuter costs. Not by a lot, but still.
I am thinking I will give them till the end of next week to bring it up, then I will ask outright.
Thanks for the input all.
This post was edited on 3/14/14 at 6:02 pm
Posted on 3/14/14 at 5:56 pm to NYNolaguy1
Alpha way to do it, go get a job and then quit.
beta way, wait around for them to tell you no raise.
eta: I say give it a week and then bring it up. Softly. If you have salary comps, that helps a lot. unemployment in engineering fields is pretty low overall, hopefully they know that.
beta way, wait around for them to tell you no raise.
eta: I say give it a week and then bring it up. Softly. If you have salary comps, that helps a lot. unemployment in engineering fields is pretty low overall, hopefully they know that.
This post was edited on 3/14/14 at 5:57 pm
Posted on 3/14/14 at 7:23 pm to NYNolaguy1
review to money 2 mos.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 7:29 pm to NYNolaguy1
Just let the market work and you will be fine.
This post was edited on 5/28/14 at 4:44 pm
Posted on 3/14/14 at 7:30 pm to NYNolaguy1
First off, honestly, you don't have a lot of leverage...in this job market, there are a hell of a lot of folks who would line up to take your job the minute you walk out the door...
also, you insinuate that you are valuable to the company...how long have you worked there?...most of us really overestimate how much we are "worth" to the company...anyone can be replaced pretty readily and it will only be a temporary inconvenience if we leave...
my point is, don't think that you can "force the issue"...make your decision for what it is, and that is whether you are happy working there for what they pay you and whether you can actually do better...
when you get to the point that you are not willing to work there for what they pay you, start a job search and if you find something better, take it...otherwise, forget the mind games and get happy...
also, you insinuate that you are valuable to the company...how long have you worked there?...most of us really overestimate how much we are "worth" to the company...anyone can be replaced pretty readily and it will only be a temporary inconvenience if we leave...
my point is, don't think that you can "force the issue"...make your decision for what it is, and that is whether you are happy working there for what they pay you and whether you can actually do better...
when you get to the point that you are not willing to work there for what they pay you, start a job search and if you find something better, take it...otherwise, forget the mind games and get happy...
Posted on 3/14/14 at 7:50 pm to Spankum
quote:
you insinuate that you are valuable to the company...how long have you worked there?...most of us really overestimate how much we are "worth" to the company...anyone can be replaced pretty readily and it will only be a temporary inconvenience if we leave
I have just completed my first year at present firm. I was given my present rate on the assumption that they wanted to test me out and see how I'd fit. With a good review to back me up, I believe I've satisfied that.
To give an idea of where I am in my career, I sit for my PE exam in October. I would sit for it in April, but NYS won't let me take it until I have 4 years at application, not at testing. I graduated in May 2010 with my BSCE, and in Dec 2008 with a BS in Math (yes I like pain).
To answer your question, I feel I am valuable b/c I am the only person I know that can go from a mostly ME job (sprinkler & plumbing) to a mostly CE job (structural, geotech, etc.) with ease. For example, yesterday I sent out a set of sprinkler drawings (that I designed) to a client. Today I was reviewing temporary wood framing calculations for an elevator platform.
I'd make a bet that most firms would hire separate people to do those tasks.
quote:
How much do you make?
Let's say it's less than 60k.
quote:
Right when I was about to accept a new job, boss called me in and said company was raising salaries for engineers across the board. Let me respectfully suggest that it is the company's job to keep you happy rather than your job to insist on more. Just let the market work and you will be fine.
I am banking on this. I recently downloaded a copy of the 2012 ASCE/ASME salary survey. According to that, for my position and years of experience, I'd be worth as a median income of 65-70k- in 2012.
Hope that clarifies things.
This post was edited on 3/14/14 at 7:52 pm
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:02 pm to NYNolaguy1
If your making less than 60, I would say you should start looking around. I graduated in CE in 2012, every offer I had was for more than 60k. Move back to LA an enjoy higher pay with a lower cost of living.
Posted on 3/14/14 at 8:04 pm to NYNolaguy1
that does clarify things a bit...
honestly, with only three years of experience and one year at your current firm, you are just now getting to the point that you are productive to them...
you talk of taking the PE and also of reviewing plans, etc...sounds like at your workplace, the PE holds a lot of weight. I am betting that your company brings up your pay quite a bit...if you can wait it out until you pass that, you do gain some leverage should they still be dragging.
FWIW, every time I read the salary studies, I get pissed off and want to quit...so don't feel like you are alone in that respect. be sure that the numbers are based on the region in which you work, as there is quite a bit of variation....the deep south used to be one of the higher paying areas for engineers and also had one of the lower costs of living.
short story is, I think they will give you a pretty good bump once you get your PE, but I am not sure it will be $15K...if you were to get a $5K raise and would still be unhappy, it may be time to see what the market has to offer....
honestly, with only three years of experience and one year at your current firm, you are just now getting to the point that you are productive to them...
you talk of taking the PE and also of reviewing plans, etc...sounds like at your workplace, the PE holds a lot of weight. I am betting that your company brings up your pay quite a bit...if you can wait it out until you pass that, you do gain some leverage should they still be dragging.
FWIW, every time I read the salary studies, I get pissed off and want to quit...so don't feel like you are alone in that respect. be sure that the numbers are based on the region in which you work, as there is quite a bit of variation....the deep south used to be one of the higher paying areas for engineers and also had one of the lower costs of living.
short story is, I think they will give you a pretty good bump once you get your PE, but I am not sure it will be $15K...if you were to get a $5K raise and would still be unhappy, it may be time to see what the market has to offer....
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