House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
Rex
LSU Fan
Here, there, and nowhere
Member since Sep 2004
56358 posts
 Online 

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


quote:

They cannot deny them, they can rule that she waived them and has to testify.

They can rule anything they like but they can't force her to testify, as a matter of the Constitution. She did not waive her rights by proclaiming her innocence, and as a witness she was entitled to plead the Fifth on individual questions, anyway.







Back to top
FalseProphet
LSU Fan
Funroe
Member since Dec 2011
6738 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


quote:

They cannot deny them, they can rule that she waived them and has to testify.


A Congressional committee can rule on a legal issue? News to me, if true. They can make a finding that she waived them, but they can't do anything about it.






Back to top
Vols&Shaft83
Georgia Tech Fan
Member since Dec 2012
18736 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


quote:

They can make a finding that she waived them, but they can't do anything about it.


She is subject to recall






Back to top
FalseProphet
LSU Fan
Funroe
Member since Dec 2011
6738 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


quote:

She is subject to recall


So? She shows up, they find that she waived her Fifth Amendment testimony, and then she says she didn't.

They can't force her to do anything.






Back to top
BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16612 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


They can hold her in contempt. That's about it though





Back to top
  Replies (0)
Vols&Shaft83
Georgia Tech Fan
Member since Dec 2012
18736 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


quote:

They can't force her to do anything.


Nope, but she can be held in Contempt, in Federal F.M.I.T.A. jail..........But she may be into that






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Decatur
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2007
17684 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


quote:

Had this been an actual criminal trial, in an actual courtroom, and had Lerner been an actual defendant, then yes, it would not have been permissible for her to testify in her own defense and then refuse cross-examination on Fifth Amendment grounds. But a congressional hearing is not a criminal trial in two important ways, Duane tells Daily Intelligencer.

First, unlike in a trial, where she could choose to take the stand or not, Lerner had no choice but to appear before the committee. Second, in a trial there would be a justifiable concern about compromising a judge or jury by providing them with "selective, partial presentation of the facts." But Congress is merely pursuing information as part of an investigation, not making a definitive ruling on Lerner's guilt or innocence.

"When somebody is in this situation," says Duane, a Harvard Law graduate whose 2008 lecture on invoking the Fifth Amendment with police has been viewed on YouTube nearly 2.5 million times, "when they are involuntarily summoned before grand jury or before legislative body, it is well settled that they have a right to make a 'selective invocation,' as it's called, with respect to questions that they think might raise a meaningful risk of incriminating themselves."

In fact, Duane says, "even if Ms. Lerner had given answers to a few questions — five, ten, twenty questions — before she decided, 'That's where I draw the line, I'm not answering any more questions,' she would be able to do that as well." Such uses of selective invocation "happen all the time."


LINK






Back to top
Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
11089 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


I've spoken to several attorneys about this issue and they all say her statement essentially waived her 5th Amendment rights. Alan Dershowitz wrote a book on this very topic and insist if she is called back to testify and refuses she could be held in contempt. You can't give a written statement then not allow members of the committee to challenge your statement. It just doesn't work that way.

quote:

Dershowitz said the "law is as clear as it could be" on the subject.

"Once you open up an area of inquiry, you can't shut off the spigot – that's the metaphor that the Supreme Court has used," he said.










Back to top
Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
11089 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


quote:

They can rule anything they like but they can't force her to testify, as a matter of the Constitution. She did not waive her rights by proclaiming her innocence, and as a witness she was entitled to plead the Fifth on individual questions, anyway
.


The legal precedent states that you cannot be compelled to testify. She showed up and testified via her opening statement on the subject, thus, she waived her right not to continue that testimony.

Her attorney should have never let her read that statement. You plea the 5th and go make a statement outside. It was a huge mistake of epic proportions.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Vols&Shaft83
Georgia Tech Fan
Member since Dec 2012
18736 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


quote:

Decatur


Alan fricking Dershowitz says you're a fricking moron, and that he hopes you rot in hell.








Back to top
  Replies (0)
Decatur
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2007
17684 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


quote:

I've spoken to several attorneys about this issue and they all say her statement essentially waived her 5th Amendment rights.


In a civil proceeding in front of Congress where she was forced to appear by subpoena?

Can you cite any authority for this?

quote:

Alan Dershowitz wrote a book on this very topic


Is he talking about criminal proceedings?






Back to top
  Replies (0)
BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16612 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


I don't know, man. I think she opened the door.





Back to top
Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5443 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


Rex you are so funny when you try to comment on law!!





Back to top
  Replies (0)
Decatur
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2007
17684 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


quote:

I think she opened the door.


It's not my area but everything I'm reading says she can selectively invoke






Back to top
Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5443 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


Read more. You can't take the stand an read and declare your side of an argument and then leave the stand and not be crossed.

Ever wonder why people in front of congress take the 5 th and then congressmen try to just ask them their name and thy still envoke the 5th? It's because you can't have it both ways and congress knows that so they try to make the witness look silly by taking the 5 th on simple bs questions.






Back to top
BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16612 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


Smart people on both sides making good arguments. Who will overrule if they say it was waived?





Back to top
Decatur
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2007
17684 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


quote:

You can't take the stand an read and declare your side of an argument and then leave the stand and not be crossed.


I thought all she did was authenticate a document

It was a ruse by Issa IMO






Back to top
BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16612 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


She clearly made a statement of innocence. That wasn't necessary to authenticate a doc





Back to top
Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5443 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


No she came out and proclaimed her innocence big difference.

Now other hearings when they ask their name date of birth etc is total grandstanding and is a ruse to get them to talk and if you go back none of them answer they all invoke the 5th. Because they have been told by their attorneys the law, but it makes for good theater.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Decatur
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2007
17684 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th


ok I see her opening statement now

Another thing on the reading list now






Back to top
  Replies (0)


Back to top