Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com

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wm72
New York/Roma
Member since Mar 2010
4394 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


quote:

Do you hate freedom?


In the context that this question is asked rhetorically on this board 100 times a day, yes, I, for one, must hate freedom with a passion.






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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22957 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


quote:

But they persuade these doctors into writing more of their prescriptions.
Who forces you to take iChat the doc prescribes? If you don't like it, ask for another medicine. Or get another doctor. Stop pretending you're helpless. Take responsibility for your own health. It's not unreasonable to expect.






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Asgard Device
The Daedalus
Member since Apr 2011
4506 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


quote:

.They get the Dr's ear, but there is no incentive to use their product, unless its whats needed, or you've got a patient that is perfect for it..


Why not just send the information to the doctor without the food? Are you saying that doctors don't care to research new drugs without a little something to sweeten the pot?

They do this same thing in my field (IT) and I'm often FLOORED at how often it works. People just inherently get off on free shite.






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sabes que
Member since Jan 2010
1705 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


quote:

Who forces you to take iChat the doc prescribes? If you don't like it, ask for another medicine. Or get another doctor. Stop pretending you're helpless. Take responsibility for your own health. It's not unreasonable to expect.


Well one would hope that the doctor has your best interest in mind when he prescribes you something. How is a person outside of the medical field suppose to know which product is best? According to your logic, why even go to the doctor? If you need heart surgery, just do it yourself, take responsibility of your own health.






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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16439 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


Ag
quote:

ain, rather than being an insult-happy Internet badass, why don't you explain to me why buying food for doctors is done for anything other than getting doctors to prescribe their drugs



Again, rather than showing your naivete, please answer my questions. You made the assertion docs are being bought off. I question your assertion that a tray from Subway would lead a doc to risk his license. You ask me to prove a negative. How about instead you provide some evidence of your assertion. I even gave you a roadmap.....what is the sales cycle for a pharma rep? How does it differ from the sales cycles of other sales reps? What percentage of docs do you feel would risk a run in with their regulatory agency over a meal? Thanks in advance for your insight.






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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22957 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


quote:

Well one would hope that the doctor has your best interest in mind when he prescribes you something.
One would hope you'd take an interest about your own healthcare.

quote:

How is a person outside of the medical field suppose to know which product is best?
I'd pose the same question to you: how do you know the doctor isn't prescribing the best medicine, but the most profitable? You seem to have the answers about what medicine is best.

quote:

According to your logic, why even go to the doctor? If you need heart surgery, just do it yourself, take responsibility of your own health
Silly. I never made an argument even approaching that level of absurdity.



This post was edited on 4/25 at 4:59 pm


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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16439 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


It really is odd. These two assume docs are corrupt...but have zero evidence to support the assertion. Then call us out for not proving them wrong in the manner they prefer. Its bizzare.





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sabes que
Member since Jan 2010
1705 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


quote:

One would hope you'd take an interest about your own healthcare.

Wouldn't taking interest in one's own healthcare mean going to the doctor. I don't see anything wrong with expecting them to know more than you. I mean after all they went to medical school. I don't think we can expect the average citizen to spend the time to educate themselves on all of the details that doctors are paid to know. "Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."

quote:

I'd pose the same question to you: how do you know the doctor isn't prescribing the best medicine, but the most profitable? You seem to have the answers about what medicine is best.

I haven't said that all doctors all the time don't prescribe you the best medicine. I haven't even said out right that they ever prescribe you to much/ or an inferior medication.
I simply pose the question that, if pharmaceutical reps are trying to bait these guys into prescribing more of their product in exchange for giving a 10 minute, 2500 dollar endorsement of the product, is this not cause for some concern?






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MSMHater
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Oct 2008
12076 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


quote:

They pay doctors thousands of dollars to give speeches endorsing their product/products


So?

If both clinical research data, and the physicians personal outcomes, have demonstrated drug A is far superior than drug B in the treatment of...shatever...why should he not present that data to his colleagues? And why the hell should he not be paid for it? Maybe it is an endorsement. But if the endorsement is backed with data that shows better outcomes, what is the problem?

Should physicians NOT share information that may lead to better outcomes for their patients?

quote:

Also, they persuade the doctors into writing more of their prescriptions so that they can have the opportunity of giving one of these 10 minute endorsement speeches that will result in them getting paid thousands of dollars.


Total bullshite! At least your first statement had some truth to it. This time you just assume that physicians ignore liability and clinical quality medicine over a measly $1000 appearance fee. That's DUMB!

quote:

Should we be concerned with these types of practices? Especially considering in something that is as serious as health

Certainly not in the manner you present it. Drug rep/physician relationships have been void of any true "perks" for about 7 years now. shite like what you are describing, at least to the degree you are trying to present, just doesn't exist anymore.

Hell, the only reason I allow most of them in my office is to feed my STAFF! I make them feed damn near 75 people just to get 5 minutes of time with one of my docs...and that is usually in the middle of clinic.

quote:

10 minute, 2500 dollar endorsement of the product

Just. Stop.









This post was edited on 4/25 at 5:36 pm


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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22957 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


quote:

Wouldn't taking interest in one's own healthcare mean going to the doctor.
No. Taking some self interest would mean learning a bit about your own condition. Ever hear of the Internet? It's no substitute for a doctor. But it's good enough to allow you to ask reasonable questions about what got doc is doing. If you don't care enough about yourself to do this... Why should anyone else care?

quote:

I don't see anything wrong with expecting them to know more than you. I mean after all they went to medical school. I don't think we can expect the average citizen to spend the time to educate themselves on all of the details that doctors are paid to know
Again, no one said that. Bit the level of dependence you're talking about is what makes you open to being a victim. If you're going to completely cede your personal responsibility, you should expect what happens.

quote:

I haven't even said out right that they ever prescribe you to much/ or an inferior medica
Then I have NO idea what you're trying to insinuate. To know corruption exists you first have to know docs are prescribing inferior products rather than the proper products. If you don't know that's actually happening... You're just making isht up.



This post was edited on 4/25 at 5:44 pm


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Diamondawg
Mississippi St. Fan
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
11292 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


quote:

why don't you explain to me why buying food for doctors is done for anything other than getting doctors to prescribe their drugs?

You woke up in the middle of the night to a rerun of The Fugitive, right? Be honest!






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Asgard Device
The Daedalus
Member since Apr 2011
4506 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


quote:

It really is odd. These two assume docs are corrupt...but have zero evidence to support the assertion.


The proof is that drug companies want to spend money wining and dining doctors. There's only two possible explanations.

Drug companies were wasting money, since doctors can not be swayed by such practices.
OR drug companies do it because they know it works.

It's hard to find a middle ground there, although the doctors I know are in psychiatry (jokes welcome), where there's competing drugs that are similar. They just seem like pill pushers, to me.

Maybe this practice is less effective in other fields.






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MSMHater
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Oct 2008
12076 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


quote:

Why not just send the information to the doctor without the food? Are you saying that doctors don't care to research new drugs without a little something to sweeten the pot?


That's human nature. You have to provide incentive. Has nothing to do with being a physician.

These seminars occur after work hours. And physicians aren't going to read through a pharmceutial power point on their own time. Have you ever tried to get a large group of professionals in a room to LEARN without offering some incentive to be there?



This post was edited on 4/25 at 5:42 pm


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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16439 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


How familiar are you with the regulations of the "wining and dining" you accuse?

Eta: your "proof" is not what a judge would call "direct evidence".



This post was edited on 4/25 at 5:44 pm


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Tiguar
South Alabama Fan
Mobile
Member since Mar 2012
6941 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


Did a 2 week summer rotation stint at a pain management clinic after my first year in pharmacy school.

Drug reps fed the entire clinic almost every day (nurses, multiple MD's, receptionists; everyone).

Every Thursday some dude with a cooler went around giving people drinks. I got a yahoo.

I can tell you they had an effect. One rep in particular was pushing "SUBSYS" which is basically a sublingual opioid. Kind of a pain to use and EXTREMELY frickING EXPENSIVE. The company would give the first month's supply away for free (assuming the patient would love it so much they'd stay on it) and then charge $1400 a month after.

Almost always, the pharmacist in this clinic would recommend against this particular drug system and I recall a specific instance where the pharmacist was insisting a patient would not be mechanically able to take the medicine properly and would most likely end up wasting most of the medicine.

Doc gave no fricks and told the pharmacist to "make it work".

FYI the SUBSYS rep was a 20 something blond that wore tight, short dresses during her visits to the doc.






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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16439 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


Seems like something you would be obligated to report. How did the hearings go?


Eta: why would anyone care what the pharmicist thinks?



This post was edited on 4/25 at 5:48 pm


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Tiguar
South Alabama Fan
Mobile
Member since Mar 2012
6941 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


Hah, report what? That the doc went against a pharmacists recommendations? That happens multiple times daily.

That they fed the whole clinic? Apparently not illegal; it literally happened almost every single day. I think by feeding the whole clinic and not being specific to the MD's they avoid legal issues.

quote:

Eta: why would anyone care what the pharmicist thinks?


Regarding drugs?




This post was edited on 4/25 at 5:49 pm


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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16439 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


Who cares what a pharmacist says? They aren't docs.





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Tiguar
South Alabama Fan
Mobile
Member since Mar 2012
6941 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


Pharm D. is doctor of pharmacy. Docs get a couple classes of pharmacology, pharmacists get 3 years + rotations of it.

Plus the pharmacists have to deal with how the patient actually pays for the drugs.

Using SUBSYS as an example, it does frick-all if the patient can't afford the $1400 a month and you get a from the insurance company



This post was edited on 4/25 at 5:52 pm


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Asgard Device
The Daedalus
Member since Apr 2011
4506 posts

re: Corruption in Pharmaceutical Sales


quote:

FYI the SUBSYS rep was a 20 something blond that wore tight, short dresses during her visits to the doc.


That fits what the uncle said of drug reps. He said they were mostly very hot and dressed to dazzle. The one male rep is a former LSU baseball player.






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