Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation | Page 4 | TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
40099 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

Exhibit A: The Catholic Church is separated into a laity and a clergy. This is where the wrong started. Now, they can call Peter whatever they want. They can ordain ministers. They can call you a bishop, archbishop, cardinal, prelate, pope---every fancy word they can think of.


simple question for you can you prove that the Catholic Church started this own its own and it wasn't a legit development of the Early Church.

quote:

But never was the Christian Congregation of the 1st century established like this.


prove it, I'm not talking about comparing today's church with the church of the early Christian, I mean prove that the Catholic Church didn't develop out of the early Church.

Did the early Church have hierarchy?
Did the early Church even mention Catholic or an idea about the Church being one?
Was there ever even mentioned a leader of a particular area or was everyone kinda on the same level?

Explain to me what you think the Early Church looked like with good historical sources.

quote:

I am quite convinced that the Catholic Church is nothing more than the 'Great Apostasy' foretold in the bible.


based on what?


quote:

Exhibit B: These so-called 'good works' is not unlike any criminal organization that gets involved with the community. See Jerry Sandusky. See Lance Armstrong. See Al Capone. Hell, see the Nazis. They all had charities and good deeds they performed.



I can understand where you are coming from on this. Look the Church has done some bad things in its past. Abused children and covered it up, some say the crusades are a bad thing and the Church murdered millions or whatever they claim, some of my historian friends say it was a self defense war, but who knows he could be wrong. You have the inquisition (there are some interesting historical perspectives on this that usually get left out when discussing this among protestants and Catholics, but that is for another time and place. TnBhoy would be able to explain this alot better then I would). But the simple truth is that those who have done grave wrongs in the Church and outside the Church will pay for what they have done. If JPII or PBXVI have done grave evils they will pay for them if they haven't already. If Pope Pius XII really did support the nazi's as many claim he did he will always pay for what he did if he hasn't already (btw I strongly disagree with most negative views of Pius XII he was very supportive of Jews its just he was kinda limited in how he could protect Jews.)

My simple point is that those who do evil will pay for it, from the Pope all the way down to the EAC Catholic (easter Ash wednesday Christmas) God yes is merciful and forgiving but he is also just and we will have to pay for all of our sins in some way. Thankfully Christ has given us the grace to be able to pay for our sins.

One last thing, I said this to revelator, I'm not Catholic because of the hierarchy or because I think its good to have a church building, and so on and so forth. The reason I'm Catholic is one simple reason and that reason is that Jesus Christ is the source of the Catholic Church. He is the good shepherd who is the one true head of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is the only Church (well orthodox church too but they are Catholic lite) which believes that Jesus is present body blood soul and divinity in the Eucharist. If I were to leave the Catholic Church, for the sex abuse stuff, because we had a bad pope, because its becoming to liberal I would never be as fulfilled in any other church then how the Catholic Church can fulfill me. Only in Christ who is the head of the Catholic Church and present fully in the Eucharist can my life be fulfilled.

I'm Catholic because of Christ and there is no other reason that I am Catholic other then that.



This post was edited on 2/25 at 9:05 am


Back to top
EthanL
LSU Fan
Auburn,AL
Member since Oct 2011
3313 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


Here is the issue my friend: Your faith is based solely on sincerity. There is nothing accurate, history or otherwise to convict your faith.

Are you familiar with Saul? A very devout, sincere Jew. He was so sincere about his religion he went persecuting and torturing early Christians. None of his sincerity made his beliefs correct, as he soon realized.

I hear Catholics talk about Sacrament, Eurachrist, Confirmation, mass, communion, transubstantiation---I'm sure you can add more.

My challenge to you is this: show me in the bible, any bible, where these things were practiced by early Christians. We have a perfect gift from Gid, in the form of his word the bible. It sets matters straight, makes us competent, and can equip us for every good work (2 Tim 3:16,17)

This is the indictment of the Catholic Church. It's a big organization running on the traditions of men, not unlike the Protestant religions that chose to take some of those teachings with them, and hides behind a premise of doing Gid's will.

Was their a scandal of child molestation among early 1st century Christians?
Who was the leader of the early Christians?
Were their leaders paid to minister to others?

Examine your faith based on the bible, facts, not the pomp and pageantry of a worldwide conglomerate man. This is the 'veil covering, blinding you to truth!






Back to top
EthanL
LSU Fan
Auburn,AL
Member since Oct 2011
3313 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

this to revelator, I'm not Catholic because of the hierarchy or because I think its good to have a church


If this were true, you would not be so ardent in your defense of these men. One of the more well-known leaders of this 'Church' won't be participating in an election of a new pope. Another, accused of the same wrongdoing in the cover-up of sex abuse, will be.

Tell me how God's will figures into all of this. Do you think His standards change over time, he becomes more acceptable of certain things, or turns a deaf ear to all of this?

What will you say when the next bombshell emerges involving the next pope?






Back to top
catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
40099 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

My challenge to you is this: show me in the bible, any bible, where these things were practiced by early Christians. We have a perfect gift from Gid, in the form of his word the bible. It sets matters straight, makes us competent, and can equip us for every good work (2 Tim 3:16,17)


a couple of things

first you ignored my challenges to you about the early Church.

second why just the bible. I'll try to explain this to you with a couple of simple questions

first the source of divine revelation is __________. (fill in the blank)
does the bible contain everything we need to know about morality, theology, how to pray, how to praise the lord, and so on and so forth?

your answer to these questions will help me guide my response.

quote:

Are you familiar with Saul? A very devout, sincere Jew. He was so sincere about his religion he went persecuting and torturing early Christians. None of his sincerity made his beliefs correct, as he soon realized.


yes I'm familiar with him, my faith is founded on Jesus Christ an no-one else, and not on sincerity or anything like that. Plus what gives you the authority to say what my faith is based on?

quote:

This is the indictment of the Catholic Church. It's a big organization running on the traditions of men, not unlike the Protestant religions that chose to take some of those teachings with them, and hides behind a premise of doing Gid's will.


your answer to my questions above will help guide how I respond to this.

quote:

Was their a scandal of child molestation among early 1st century Christians?
Who was the leader of the early Christians?
Were their leaders paid to minister to others?


again answer those two simple questions.

quote:

Examine your faith based on the bible, facts, not the pomp and pageantry of a worldwide conglomerate man. This is the 'veil covering, blinding you to truth!


first I do pray and study scripture so if there was something in there condemning the Church I would see it. But so far in my praying of scripture everything I read and I pray about straightens my faith in Christ, what I believe he is calling me to do, and that the Catholic Church contains the fullness of truth.

I read scripture every morning in prayer, so it is a major part of my life.

but again please answer the questions.

to restate them


The source of divine revelation is __________. (fill in the blank) (depending on your answer I may have a few more questions for you)
Does the bible contain everything we need to know about morality, theology, how to pray, how to praise the lord, and so on and so forth?






Back to top
catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
40099 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

Tell me how God's will figures into all of this. Do you think His standards change over time, he becomes more acceptable of certain things, or turns a deaf ear to all of this?


I'll answer this when you answer my questions. You will see why.

btw why I support the pope the way I do is because I think all the accusations of him are BS not because I agree with the coverups or the sex abuse, I just think the accusations of PBXVI are false. I'm defending him just like any person would defend someone who they think are innocent.

About the Cardinal who was guilty of cover up I have never defended him for one second.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
BugAC
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
19308 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

I just report it


Well if you say it, it must be true.

quote:

. The Vatican is evil, it was from the very beginning, yet good people remain naive.


I am not Catholic, I am Christian, however. The Vatican and the Church is not evil.




This post was edited on 2/25 at 11:24 am


Back to top
jonboy
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
3104 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

BugAC


Might want to edit your post.







Back to top
BugAC
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
19308 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

Might want to edit your post


good call, thanks



This post was edited on 2/25 at 11:25 am


Back to top
  Replies (0)
catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
40099 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

I am not Catholic, I am Christian, however. The Vatican and the Church is not evil.



glad to see how some non catholics agreeing with me.

kinda a bump too.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
TK421
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
8225 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

does the bible contain everything we need to know about morality, theology, how to pray, how to praise the lord, and so on and so forth?


Of course it does. Does it answer every question that could possibly arise? No. But it answers the questions that matter.

Why do you think the early Catholic Church discouraged Christians from reading the Bible?






Back to top
a want
LSU Fan
North America
Member since Oct 2010
10109 posts
 Online 

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

let me rephrase what I'm saying, people who hate the Catholic Church seem to only focus on the bad and forget all the good things the Church does.


a.) Pointing out some egregious crimes and their cover-ups (and that members often turn a blind eye to these crimes/cover-ups) is not the same thing as "hating the Catholic Church". It seems to me that many Catholics are terribly defensive about this. Any criticism immediately turns to "ESPN hates LSU".

b.) What good does the Catholic Church do? I'm not being a jerk... I just don't know what they do.






Back to top
TK421
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
8225 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

let me rephrase what I'm saying, people who hate the Catholic Church seem to only focus on the bad and forget all the good things the Church does.


When the bad = sexual assault of minors by their spiritual leaders, it is very difficult for the good to compensate.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Paluka
LSU Fan
One State Over
Member since Dec 2010
4710 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


Catholic Relief Services, the official international humanitarian agency of the Catholic community in the United States, in January 2012. CRS was founded in 1943 by the Catholic Bishops of the United States to serve survivors of World War II in Europe. Since then, it has expanded to reach more than 100 million people in nearly 100 countries on five continents.

www.catholiccharitiesusa.org

The largest private network of social service organizations in the United States works to support families, reduce poverty, and build communities.





This post was edited on 2/25 at 2:28 pm


Back to top
  Replies (0)
catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
40099 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

Of course it does. Does it answer every question that could possibly arise? No. But it answers the questions that matter.



answer the other question I possed to ethanL the source of divine revelation is ___________

quote:

Why do you think the early Catholic Church discouraged Christians from reading the Bible?


not true.

look up lectio devina
look up liturgy of the hours
look at the first half of the mass
the church very much encourages people to read the bible.






Back to top
TK421
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
8225 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

answer the other question I possed to ethanL the source of divine revelation is ___________



God alone. It has nothing to do with an imagined hierarchy of faith.

quote:

not true


Funny that you laugh at this. It is completely true.






Back to top
catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
40099 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

a.) Pointing out some egregious crimes and their cover-ups (and that members often turn a blind eye to these crimes/cover-ups) is not the same thing as "hating the Catholic Church". It seems to me that many Catholics are terribly defensive about this. Any criticism immediately turns to "ESPN hates LSU".


that is a legit concern sorry if my posts came off this way I try to not resort to that.


quote:

b.) What good does the Catholic Church do? I'm not being a jerk... I just don't know what they do.


one poster already mentioned Catholic Charities
St. Vincent de Paul is another example.
There are a myrid of saints who have done alot for the poor.
Mother Teresa is one (even with all the crap Richard Dawkins said about her, which I don't think is true)
St. Vincent de Paul
St. Nicholas
ST Louis De Moralac (don't remember how to spell)
Saint Damien of Molokai (went into a leaper colony and minister to them)
while I can't think of many off the top of my head just because I just haven't studied the lives of the satins that much, this is a few grains of sand on a beach of saints who helped the poor and put their life on the line for the poor.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
40099 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

God alone. It has nothing to do with an imagined hierarchy of faith.



what are the instruments of his divine revelation?


quote:

Funny that you laugh at this. It is completely true.



so some protestant who doesn't go to a Catholic Church daily, doesn't really know many priests (i'm guessing you don't) knows the Catholic Church better then someone who goes to mass daily knows many priests and actually studies many Church documents and Catholic Theology.

but I have heard this happened before vatican II but the church now for sure encourages her faithful to read scripture and pray them and study them.






Back to top
shinerfan
LSU Fan
Duckworld(Earth-616)
Member since Sep 2009
5940 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

But the simple truth is that those who have done grave wrongs in the Church and outside the Church will pay for what they have done. If JPII or PBXVI have done grave evils they will pay for them if they haven't already. If Pope Pius XII really did support the nazi's as many claim he did he will always pay for what he did if he hasn't already (btw I strongly disagree with most negative views of Pius XII he was very supportive of Jews its just he was kinda limited in how he could protect Jews.)

My simple point is that those who do evil will pay for it, from the Pope all the way down to the EAC Catholic (easter Ash wednesday Christmas) God yes is merciful and forgiving but he is also just and we will have to pay for all of our sins in some way. Thankfully Christ has given us the grace to be able to pay for our sins.




But surely you can see how nonbelievers have a problem letting them escape earthly justice? Every big bureaucratic organization would love to deal with their scandals in-house, but secrecy will be reasonably interpreted as doing nothing.

FWIW, I'm a nonbeliever but shy away from the word "atheist" because of the zealotry the term implies. I don't hate Christianity, I have mostly good memories of a religious upbringing. I just think its a fairy tale.






Back to top
catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
40099 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

But surely you can see how nonbelievers have a problem letting them escape earthly justice? Every big bureaucratic organization would love to deal with their scandals in-house, but secrecy will be reasonably interpreted as doing nothing.


any bad thing should be taken care on earth I agree, I disagree with the things they did and how they covered it up. Most of the time when I defend people who are accused of covering up or sexual abuse it is because I don't believe they did what people claimed. No-one would call a lawyer evil for defending a criminal.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
TK421
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
8225 posts

re: Vatican lashes out at media: "false" reports about Pope Benedict's resignation


quote:

so some protestant who doesn't go to a Catholic Church daily, doesn't really know many priests (i'm guessing you don't) knows the Catholic Church better then someone who goes to mass daily knows many priests and actually studies many Church documents and Catholic Theology.


Someone who does not immerse himself personally in a Church would absolutely have a better understanding of the Church history. You are hopelessly biased. You assume far too much about my "ignorance" of the Catholic church, fwiw.

quote:

but I have heard this happened before vatican II


You just laughed at me stating it happened and then confirm it?






Back to top


Back to top