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re: What Are the Board's Thoughts Regarding .38, .380, and 9mm for Carry?
Posted on 1/20/13 at 1:28 pm to Ace Midnight
Posted on 1/20/13 at 1:28 pm to Ace Midnight
(no message)
This post was edited on 3/8/13 at 12:22 pm
1
Posted on 1/20/13 at 1:44 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
Oh, and this is garrison commander's "snub nosed" revolver:
Weighs about 3 pounds - empty. I have a Sig P245 that is lighter (and carries 1 fewer round)
Weighs about 3 pounds - empty. I have a Sig P245 that is lighter (and carries 1 fewer round)
This post was edited on 1/20/13 at 1:45 pm
Posted on 1/20/13 at 2:38 pm to Ace Midnight
I enjoyed shooting the Ruger .357 chambered in .38, but it didn't seem practical for a carry. Probably a great home defense gun. Definitely wouldn't want to go smaller for a .357.
Didn't mention .40 because of the price, and it doesn't seem to offer much more than a 9mm.
I really liked shooting the Bersa .380. I have large hands, and didn't come close to getting bitten. Had a nice tongue on it. The Walthers seem to be the ones most notorious for biting from my reading. I'm not sure that I see a bullet with lower velocity as a negative. Something to be said for not overpenetrating in a carry pistol.
Also enjoyed shooting the S&W Bodyguard chambered in .38 and .38 +p.
I haven't fired any 9mm compacts, though (just a regular sized Glock). I definitely will not be purchasing a subcompact (unless a .38 revolver).
In the end, price/effectiveness will be the determiner. I want to be able to practice frequently. Is there anyone here who thinks the .38 or .380 cartridge is ineffective for self defense? Or is this really just a case of which option is the best out of several good options?
Didn't mention .40 because of the price, and it doesn't seem to offer much more than a 9mm.
I really liked shooting the Bersa .380. I have large hands, and didn't come close to getting bitten. Had a nice tongue on it. The Walthers seem to be the ones most notorious for biting from my reading. I'm not sure that I see a bullet with lower velocity as a negative. Something to be said for not overpenetrating in a carry pistol.
Also enjoyed shooting the S&W Bodyguard chambered in .38 and .38 +p.
I haven't fired any 9mm compacts, though (just a regular sized Glock). I definitely will not be purchasing a subcompact (unless a .38 revolver).
In the end, price/effectiveness will be the determiner. I want to be able to practice frequently. Is there anyone here who thinks the .38 or .380 cartridge is ineffective for self defense? Or is this really just a case of which option is the best out of several good options?
This post was edited on 1/20/13 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 1/20/13 at 3:02 pm to Ace Midnight
Yea federal .357b is still the street king from what I've read.
Problem with them is they are old school full house .357 magnum barn burners. The recoil is on par with heavy buffalo bore loads in my blackhawk. I imagine they are a hand full in a compact lightweight revolver. You'll also loose a lot of that arse with a short barrel. The .357 really comes to life at and above 4" of barrel and thats what it was designed for. I STRONGLY suggest any .357mag carry revolver have a 3" barrel (or longer if you can do it). Lighting off a full power .357 mag out of a 1.75" air weight is going to rock your shite.
Alternatively, if you want to carry .38+p, a revolver chambered for .357 will give you a little extra weight to help tame recoil and gives you the option of moving up to .357mag loads if you choose.
Problem with them is they are old school full house .357 magnum barn burners. The recoil is on par with heavy buffalo bore loads in my blackhawk. I imagine they are a hand full in a compact lightweight revolver. You'll also loose a lot of that arse with a short barrel. The .357 really comes to life at and above 4" of barrel and thats what it was designed for. I STRONGLY suggest any .357mag carry revolver have a 3" barrel (or longer if you can do it). Lighting off a full power .357 mag out of a 1.75" air weight is going to rock your shite.
Alternatively, if you want to carry .38+p, a revolver chambered for .357 will give you a little extra weight to help tame recoil and gives you the option of moving up to .357mag loads if you choose.
Posted on 1/20/13 at 3:05 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
What Are the Board's Thoughts Regarding .38, .380, and 9mm for Carry?
How did this turn into a .357 thread
Posted on 1/20/13 at 3:06 pm to Nascar Fan
Because.38 and .357 are like peas and carrots
Posted on 1/20/13 at 3:10 pm to shutterspeed
quote:
I haven't fired any 9mm compacts, though (just a regular sized Glock). I definitely will not be purchasing a subcompact (unless a .38 revolver).
I think we need some definition clarifications - Glock considers (for example, in 9mm) the 17 full size, the 19 compact and the 26 subcompact (the 26 is the base size for the "Baby Glocks").
quote:
In the end, price/effectiveness will be the determiner. I want to be able to practice frequently. Is there anyone here who thinks the .38 or .380 cartridge is ineffective for self defense? Or is this really just a case of which option is the best out of several good options?
Carrying a handgun is already a compromise. Once you get into legitimate defense calibers (and I consider .32 ACP the absolute floor), there is the law of diminishing returns. If you can shoot the eyes out of a target with a Walther PPK, but cannot hit the side of a barn from inside it with a Desert Eagle .50 AE, by all means carry the Walther - a single hit with a .22LR is worth any number of misses with .357 magnum or .45 ACP. However, once you get to "carry", do you mean holster or CCW? Open carry in a holster, should be Glock 19/Sig P229 size gun an up, in my opinion, and you can pretty much pick your poison (including 4" bbl .357 magnum revolvers - still a fine choice in the 21st century).
For CCW, that same gun size, Glock 19/Sig P229 is almost the biggest you can go, and even then, you're looking at clothing/holstering options that are more restricted in a smaller gun.
In any event, there are several quality guns (of which the Kahr PM-9 is only one example) that gives you the option of carrying a wide variety of full power 9mm defense cartridges in the size of a pocket pistol.
Posted on 1/20/13 at 3:34 pm to shutterspeed
I carry a 9mm. With good ammo (I carry Winchester pdx1 or federal fst) it will do the job. I also practice quite a bit and feel comfortable finding something vital with my shot placement. I'd rather have my 12+1 semi auto over a 5 shot revolver in any caliber. My follow up shots are way faster I practice more because rounds are cheaper making me more effective and like I previously said, 13 rounds is a decent capacity. Also, in the unlikely event of a needed reload I'm going to grab a 17 round mag and shoot for days.
Posted on 1/20/13 at 3:37 pm to bapple
12 steps
12 steps
12 steps
Posted on 1/20/13 at 3:45 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Alternatively, if you want to carry .38+p, a revolver chambered for .357 will give you a little extra weight to help tame recoil and gives you the option of moving up to .357mag loads if you choose.
This is the exact reason I suggest a 357 over a 38.
Posted on 1/20/13 at 3:54 pm to bapple
Yep
While .38spl is a good defensive caliber, buying a revolver chambered in .38spl makes little sense in my mind, unless it's an airweight or similar tiny ultra-light revolver where shooting .357 magnum only makes sense if you're a glutton for self-punishment.
While .38spl is a good defensive caliber, buying a revolver chambered in .38spl makes little sense in my mind, unless it's an airweight or similar tiny ultra-light revolver where shooting .357 magnum only makes sense if you're a glutton for self-punishment.
Posted on 1/20/13 at 5:09 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
In any event, there are several quality guns (of which the Kahr PM-9 is only one example) that gives you the option of carrying a wide variety of full power 9mm defense cartridges in the size of a pocket pistol.
I would definitely consider a Kahr CW9. And that's kind of the direction I was headed before trying the Bersa and S&W Bodyguard. I would love a .357 magnum, but I don't think I'd enjoy carrying around a medium-full size version of that!
Posted on 1/20/13 at 5:21 pm to shutterspeed
.380 is clearly less than .38 special, which is less than the others.
9mm is only equal to .40 & .45 in the +p versions, like Corbon. Those rounds would be hell to shoot in a compact pistol anyway. People also leave out that 9's with that ammo kick just as hard as .40/,45's.
Plenty of people carry .380's. If it lets you take it with you, it's doing its job.
9mm is only equal to .40 & .45 in the +p versions, like Corbon. Those rounds would be hell to shoot in a compact pistol anyway. People also leave out that 9's with that ammo kick just as hard as .40/,45's.
Plenty of people carry .380's. If it lets you take it with you, it's doing its job.
Posted on 1/20/13 at 6:42 pm to shutterspeed
SS,
A number of earlier posts have correctly answered your original question of comparative expense of different self defense target rounds. Consequently, I'll address a few of the other topics that have been raised.
Personally, I cc a 380 ACP only when I can't carry a bigger gun chambered in a better fight stopping gun. Do I want to be shot in the face w/ a 380? Of course not. Nevertheless, I think there are better sd rounds out there. The best sd calibers are: 357 Magnum, 9mm Luger, 357 Sig, 40 S&w and 45 ACP. 38 Spec +P if better than 380, but not as good as the others.
There are a number of 9mm's that can be pocket carried w/ the correct combo of clothing and holster. These would include:
Kel-Tec PF9
Ruger LC9
Beretta Nano
Kimber Solo
Kahr CM9/PM9
Sig 250
Others that I think may be to big for most pockets are:
S&W Shield
Bersa BP 9cc
Kahr CW9
Springfield XDs (right now only available inn 45 ACP, but a 9mm version was announced at the SHOT show last week).
Sig 9383-3.5" 1911's
A number of earlier posts have correctly answered your original question of comparative expense of different self defense target rounds. Consequently, I'll address a few of the other topics that have been raised.
Personally, I cc a 380 ACP only when I can't carry a bigger gun chambered in a better fight stopping gun. Do I want to be shot in the face w/ a 380? Of course not. Nevertheless, I think there are better sd rounds out there. The best sd calibers are: 357 Magnum, 9mm Luger, 357 Sig, 40 S&w and 45 ACP. 38 Spec +P if better than 380, but not as good as the others.
There are a number of 9mm's that can be pocket carried w/ the correct combo of clothing and holster. These would include:
Kel-Tec PF9
Ruger LC9
Beretta Nano
Kimber Solo
Kahr CM9/PM9
Sig 250
Others that I think may be to big for most pockets are:
S&W Shield
Bersa BP 9cc
Kahr CW9
Springfield XDs (right now only available inn 45 ACP, but a 9mm version was announced at the SHOT show last week).
Sig 9383-3.5" 1911's
Posted on 1/20/13 at 6:47 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
quote:I thought the Shield and the LC9 were practically the same size???
Others that I think may be to big for most pockets are:
S&W Shield
Posted on 1/20/13 at 7:52 pm to Geauxtiga
quote:
I thought the Shield and the LC9 were practically the same size???
I have a Kel-Tec PF9 that I've pocket carried extensively. I don't have a Shield or an LC9 so I welcome the input of those who do and have pocket carried them. You're right in that the dimensions for the LC9 and Shield are very close. At some point, those 1/10' and 2/10" of an inch differences add up. Consequently, I'll admit I'm making my best available guess.
Posted on 1/20/13 at 8:04 pm to TigerOnThe Hill
Oh I'm not trying to front you. In fact quite the opposite. I respect your opinon SO much that it made ME second guess what I'd read.
I just happened to be going back and forth between the the two but just haven't gotten to hold a Shield yet so was looking for something I may have missed. You made ME balk.
I just happened to be going back and forth between the the two but just haven't gotten to hold a Shield yet so was looking for something I may have missed. You made ME balk.
Posted on 1/20/13 at 8:49 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:
9mm is only equal to .40 & .45 in the +p versions, like Corbon. Those rounds would be hell to shoot in a compact pistol anyway. People also leave out that 9's with that ammo kick just as hard as .40/,45's.
Not true.
I carry my Kahr CM9 with hot Speer Gold Dots and Winchester PDX1s, both in +p configuration. They aren't as much fun to shoot as target rounds, sure, but they still aren't nearly as snappy as a subcompact 40, and have less recoil than a subcompact 45 with similar weight.
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