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Posted on 1/5/13 at 1:13 pm to oauron
quote:
I agree the blockbuster model is bad for gaming, but not because of low quality but how it has driven up costs and put many good and talented studios out of business.
I don't think its necessarily the blockbuster model that has driven costs up, but rather the increasing complexity and time required to produce high-quality assets. And that complexity and time cuts across all platforms, PC and console, alike.
So while PC acolytes like to say that without consoles, graphics would be better (and there is no debate they could be better....for now), in practice, they probably wouldn't improve all that much. After all, basically all they really want is for devs to take advantage of DX11 and OpenGL 4 tech, but devs still wouldn't have because (until recently) the market saturation of that tech was relatively low.
Sadly for devs, the cost of making AAA quality titles is about to go through the roof.
Ultimately, I believe that consoles represent a forcing function on the industry as a whole. Big studios are starting to move towards next-gen development as we speak and the availability of popular, extremely powerful consoles simply speed and incentivize that movement.
Also, people who say that the next-gen consoles won't look as good top of the line gaming PCs right now are retarded. And wrong. You can't compare PC specs and console specs apples to apples, because graphics and "computational power" don't work that way. Plus all of the theorized specs for PS4 and 720 are bullshite anyway
Posted on 1/5/13 at 1:37 pm to tigergamedev
quote:
Also, people who say that the next-gen consoles won't look as good top of the line gaming PCs right now are retarded. And wrong.
Don't agree with this at all. No next gen console will touch the jockstrap of top line gaming PCs. Its pretty laughable. The next gen consoles would have to run $1k+ to compete graPhically, but that would kiLL their sales.
Posted on 1/5/13 at 1:42 pm to bluebarracuda
quote:
Don't agree with this at all. No next gen console will touch the jockstrap of top line gaming PCs. Its pretty laughable. The next gen consoles would have to run $1k+ to compete graPhically, but that would kiLL their sales.
You only say this because you don't understand how graphics and hardware work.
Posted on 1/5/13 at 1:49 pm to tigergamedev
To me, it's got to be about optimization. I'm amazed to see what developers are able to extract from 7 year old hardware, I expect a similar circumstance one to two years down the road from next gen release, when developers are used to working with a defined hardware set.
Posted on 1/5/13 at 1:55 pm to sbr2
That's totally a part of it. But it's not the whole story either. But there are also things like throughput and latency that factor in heavily. The ps3s gpu was shitty 7 years ago but they still made great looking games.
Posted on 1/5/13 at 3:00 pm to oauron
quote:
I can't think of time where Activision was ever in a spot like THQ who recently went bankrupt.
THQ was such a clusterfrick that noone would even buy them. Congrats to Activision for failing at a time when other game companies had more capital to waste.
quote:
I agree the blockbuster model is bad for gaming, but not because of low quality but how it has driven up costs and put many good and talented studios out of business.
It is not due to low quality graphics. It is due to low quality writing. There is no creativity in any of the big studios. They want to make money the surest way they can. By selling the same thing over and over to anyone dumb enough to buy it.
quote:
Here's a list to all they've developed. LINK
Not a single good game on that list from the 2010s. Could be a coincidence... but it isn't. The vast majority of those games are just rehashes of rehashes (crash bandicoot nitro kart 2? are you shitting me?) or dull attempts to capitalize on subpar movies/tv (bond, spiderman, transformers, family guy, generator rex).
Posted on 1/5/13 at 3:21 pm to tigergamedev
quote:
You only say this because you don't understand how graphics and hardware work.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. "Optimization" does make a difference, but a small difference. Please tell me you are either not really a developer or you work for Zynga or equivalent.
Posted on 1/5/13 at 4:09 pm to tom
I wasn't the one to bring up optimization, but it is a part of the whole picture. And when I say optimization I'm not talking about optimizing assembly code or anything myopic like that (though those types can be very valuable). The optimizations I'm talking about come mostly in the organizational category. And that makes sense, since games are heavily data-driven applications. Making a game fast and making rendering fast is a combination of 1000 little things and a couple dozen big things that help the hardware efficiently consume the app's data. Assumptions are what win you the most ms per frame. And on xbox and ps3 (more on ps3) you can make an order of magnitude more assumptions than you can on PC. And it will always mean that less powerful hardware can keep up with the more brute force power of a PC. And it will always be that way, unless we go back to the mid 90s where some games only worked on Voodoo cards and shite like that.
And no, I don't work at Zynga (and Zynga has a ton of brilliant devs, they just deal with a different class of problem). I work at a big company that you probably all love, but I won't name names... since I was planning on giving a couple of scoops this year (which is shaping up to be one of the biggest ever)
And if your gonna argue about with $15000 NVIDIA workstation being faster than consoles... then don't bother. That kind of tech is so advanced it isn't really gaming technology yet. And virtually no one (outside of work) owns one to play games on.
And no, I don't work at Zynga (and Zynga has a ton of brilliant devs, they just deal with a different class of problem). I work at a big company that you probably all love, but I won't name names... since I was planning on giving a couple of scoops this year (which is shaping up to be one of the biggest ever)
And if your gonna argue about with $15000 NVIDIA workstation being faster than consoles... then don't bother. That kind of tech is so advanced it isn't really gaming technology yet. And virtually no one (outside of work) owns one to play games on.
Posted on 1/5/13 at 4:12 pm to tigergamedev
There is one well-known game company I know that operates in the state you have in your info.
Posted on 1/5/13 at 4:16 pm to tigergamedev
God damn it, I was going to claim inside info but not anymore. SO many branches.
Posted on 1/5/13 at 4:20 pm to tom
quote:
Optimization" does make a difference, but a small difference
Is this real life? Compare Uncharted 1 which a talented studio said they pushed the platform to develop and then a few years later with Uncharted 3. Uncharted 3 looks miles better and does a lot more than the first entry. With consoles, optimization is everything.
Posted on 1/5/13 at 4:29 pm to oauron
Exactly. And Naughty Dog has the fricking Sony ICE team in their damn office. And they still found a ton of room to improve.
The ICE team is essentially the baddest group of graphics coders Sony can hire, with the express purpose of helping devs make PS3 games look as good as possible.
The ICE team is essentially the baddest group of graphics coders Sony can hire, with the express purpose of helping devs make PS3 games look as good as possible.
Posted on 1/5/13 at 4:49 pm to oauron
quote:
Compare Uncharted 1 which a talented studio said they pushed the platform to develop and then a few years later with Uncharted 3
So? I could remake Mario Brothers on a pc that would blow your mind. Just because a game did a poor job utilizing the available tools means nothing.
quote:
With consoles, optimization is everything.
Clearly, seeing as how the hardware is not upgradeable.
Posted on 1/5/13 at 4:56 pm to tom
quote:
So? I could remake Mario Brothers on a pc that would blow your mind. Just because a game did a poor job utilizing the available tools means nothing.
damn, and here i was hoping you knew something about something and we could have an interesting conversation
Posted on 1/5/13 at 4:59 pm to tom
Damn Tom, you're usually pretty on point but I disagree with this.
Posted on 1/5/13 at 5:01 pm to tigergamedev
quote:
and we could have an interesting conversation
Well, seeing as how you completely write off hardware improvements, I somehow doubt it. According to your logic, we haven't maxed out 8-bit graphics and could still be making improvements. Silly us.
Posted on 1/5/13 at 5:03 pm to tigergamedev
quote:
tigergamedev
Gabe is secretly posting on TD as tigergamedev..
Posted on 1/5/13 at 5:12 pm to tom
quote:
poor job utilizing the available tools
But they didn't do a poor job. At the time, Uncharted was the best looking console game out there.
Not sure how you making Mario Brothers on different equipment and the comparing to Wii, DS, etc. means anything at all.
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