Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord | Page 3 | TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
goatmilker
LSU Fan
2014 drunkin Bobby award winner!
Member since Feb 2009
16789 posts
 Online 

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

THIS YEAR IS ON THE DEFENSE!


I'll disagree on this point.

It was







Back to top
CM84
USA Fan
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2007
2495 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

The first half of the season he was missing a Lb coach, two veteran team leaders at vital positions, a HC, the offense was deplorable, and he had just started a totally new defensive scheme. They did improve. God damn give the dude a little slack.


It's hard to give slack and say things are improving when Deangelo Williams just ran for 210 yrds. The run Defense is putrid. We give up to many big plays in the passing game. The pass rush is almost non existent. We keep saying things are getting better, but how could they not after the first 8 game. Could it have really gotten worse?

We finished 31st in points and 32nd in yards (worst in history). Significantly worse than last yr with the same shitty talent.

That being said, I don't believe he should get fired. He surely don't deserve any slack though.

Save any excuse of:
New Scheme
Bounty Gate
Offense wasn't as good.

Even when you factor in all circumstances it should have never been this bad.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
goatmilker
LSU Fan
2014 drunkin Bobby award winner!
Member since Feb 2009
16789 posts
 Online 

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


Wrong pic









Back to top
  Replies (0)
CM84
USA Fan
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2007
2495 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

It's the same players as last year and we weren't this bad. If Spags can't figure out what payers can or can't do after a year and put them in position to make plays or not get embarrassed, then that makes him a bad coordinator.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
BigBrod81
LSU Fan
Houma
Member since Sep 2010
1883 posts
 Online 

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

How about the defense giving up two quick scores agains Dallas at the end of the game?


The defense made three consecutive stops before giving up the two late TD's. The offense had 2 drives where if they drive down & get at least a field goal then that game is over.

quote:

D'Angelo Williams rushing for 210 yards?


How come the offense didn't do shite for a quarter & a half while forcing the defense to spend the majority of the 1st half on the field? You don't think the early ineptitude by the offense & the fact that the defense was forced to log so many didn't aid to tired legs in the 2nd half of the Carolina game?

quote:

The offense was still top 3 in scoring and yards.


Yeah, much of that had to do with playing from behind & being forced to catch up. Let's completely ignore how many games the offense came out flat & did nothing during the first half of games or completely disappeared ala the San Fran game. You also failed to mention that the offense finished 24th in rushing.

The amount of rushing attempts early this season was pathetic & the offense was basically one dimensional. There was a lack of attention to detail when it came to protections. There was a serious lack of chipping by the backs & TE's to help out the OT's.

quote:

THIS YEAR IS ON THE DEFENSE!


Wrong. It didn't help but they weren't the whole problem. If you can't see how the offense's inconsistencies & disappearing acts for long periods during games doesn't go hand & hand with absurd yardage the defense gave up them this season then you should find another sport to follow.

If the offense doesn't sustain drives & eat clock then it forces your already struggling defense back on the field & wears them down.



This post was edited on 12/31 at 6:22 pm


Back to top
CM84
USA Fan
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2007
2495 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

How come the offense didn't do shite for a quarter & a half while forcing the defense to spend the majority of the 1st half on the field? You don't think the early ineptitude by the offense & the fact that the defense was forced to log so many didn't aid to tired legs in the 2nd half of the Carolina game?


You sold me, it's all the offensives fault . It's that the reason we gave up the most yrds in history? Because our defense was tired all yr?

Why was our run defense terrible all year long stopping the run?

You can make every little excuse, but Spags never put the defense in the best position to succeed.

Again, Deanglo WIlliams ran for over 200yrds because the D was tired according to you.







Back to top
tucotiger
Member since Dec 2012
324 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


Sedric Ellis should wear a mask when collecting his last check.





Back to top
  Replies (0)
Suntiger
USA Fan
BR or somewhere else
Member since Feb 2007
21162 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


The offense scored 31 points against Dallas! I don't care who you play. When the offense scores 31 points, you shouldn't have to go to overtime. Make a stop and get off the field. It's not the offenses fault.

And yes, I conceded that the offense had some bad games and wasn't as aggressive as they could have been. That's when the defense has to step up and make a stop. For fricks sake, why don't you just blame Drew Brees, or Tom Benson, or the referees or the fan who wore the wrong jersey to the game.

THIS
DEFENSE
SUCKED

They needed to step up at times and didn't. Then when they didn't need to step up, but only play decent, they didn't, except against crap teams like Tampa and Oakland.

Again, give me one reason to say Spags did a good or decent job this year. I'm not impressed by anything he did this season.






Back to top
BigBrod81
LSU Fan
Houma
Member since Sep 2010
1883 posts
 Online 

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


I never said the defense didn't have their defencies. The whole point I'm making is the team as a whole missed Payton.

Without his play designing & play calling, the offense failed in crucial moments that effected the outcome games where in the past, the offense came through in those situations.

Stevie Wonder can see that there needs to be upgrades on the defensive side of the ball but to throw the entire blame on Spags is foolish.

This team under Payton has been built as an offensive team so it lives & dies with its offense. All this team needs is a defense that compliments the offense but at the same time the offense needs cash in our their opportunities & control the tempo of the game. The defense is not built to control the tempo of games.

Teams like Seattle & San Francisco have been built on the defensive side of the ball. Their defenses can impose their will & set the tempo of games.

You don't have to look hard to find another team that plays with the formula of ball control but explosive offense & complimentary defense. The Patriots do just this. Their defense is not great at all but their offense led by Brady & a solid running game controls most games. They set the tempo which limits the exposure of their defense. They have played this way ever since they lost most of their defensive stars during their early Super Bowl runs to free agency & retirement.






Back to top
htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
belle chasse
Member since Dec 2012
5285 posts
 Online 

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

I never said the defense didn't have their defencies. The whole point I'm making is the team as a whole missed Payton.

Without his play designing & play calling, the offense failed in crucial moments that effected the outcome games where in the past, the offense came through in those situations.

Stevie Wonder can see that there needs to be upgrades on the defensive side of the ball but to throw the entire blame on Spags is foolish.

This team under Payton has been built as an offensive team so it lives & dies with its offense. All this team needs is a defense that compliments the offense but at the same time the offense needs cash in our their opportunities & control the tempo of the game. The defense is not built to control the tempo of games.

Teams like Seattle & San Francisco have been built on the defensive side of the ball. Their defenses can impose their will & set the tempo of games.

You don't have to look hard to find another team that plays with the formula of ball control but explosive offense & complimentary defense. The Patriots do just this. Their defense is not great at all but their offense led by Brady & a solid running game controls most games. They set the tempo which limits the exposure of their defense. They have played this way ever since they lost most of their defensive stars during their early Super Bowl runs to free agency & retirement.


san fran game and atl game were two prime examples of the def "stepping up". they played well in both of those games even with brees having un-brees-like turnovers and playing tired for the most part. I agree with you and if anyone wants to say that the inconsistency of the offense was not an issue, I want them to go do something.

I want them to go and see how tiring it is to be a defensive player for 10 straight game minutes at a time chasing around players. it is TIRING even at the basement level of flag football. I'm sure even with the best conditioning in the world you can only go 100% for so long before it just wears you out, I played high school football and it wasn't easy having to be on the field for extended periods of time. I'm not saying that's why this defense sucked, but it is a legitimate reason.

Given that most of the run plays were on ellis/smith. Cam Jordan was rated what, #1 DE against the run? can't blame him for any "running" issues at least.



This post was edited on 12/31 at 7:27 pm


Back to top
  Replies (0)
motorbreath
New Orleans Saints Fan
Atlanta Braves Fan
Member since Jun 2004
4578 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


I'd rather keep some consistency than have the defense have to learn a whole new system again.





Back to top
  Replies (0)
BigBrod81
LSU Fan
Houma
Member since Sep 2010
1883 posts
 Online 

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

The offense scored 31 points against Dallas!


And so what? Why in the hell do you think over the years Payton has kept his foot on the gas & had the team put 40-50 points on the board? In this NFL, the rules are skewed to allow such comebacks & high scoring games. NEWSFLASH.... The Saints aren't the only team to allow such a comeback especially with inexperience at safety & corner(Patrick & Mack).

quote:

That's when the defense has to step up and make a stop.


If you weren't so close minded you would see that the defense did do just this in several games. I listed them in one of post above but you just chose to ignore them.

quote:

For fricks sake, why don't you just blame Drew Brees, or Tom Benson, or the referees or the fan who wore the wrong jersey to the game.


Where have I blamed this season on Drew?. IMO, Drew had his best season as a Saint because of the circumstances surrounding this season.

My biggest gripe is with Pete Carmicheal. He's been coaching under Payton since Payton arrived in '06. Sean laid the blueprint for his offense yet Carmicheal failed to follow that blueprint.

It took Carmichael 8 weeks for him to realize the offense needed the balance of the run game to be successful. It also took 8 weeks for him to utilize a "jumbo" or "heavy" package. It would have taken Payton all of 3 plays into the season to show this formation.

Pete's lack designing plays imploring backs & TE's to chip before releasing on their routes cost the offense dearly. Two plays stuck in my head all season long with this.

Against KC on their own 2, Carmichael called for a bunch 4 receiver set to one side, one receiver to the other side with no backs in the backfield. I cannot figure out why any OC would call that backed up on their own 2 yard line but Carmicheal did. The result of the play ended being a safety because both Strief & Bushrod got blown by. There should have been safety valves on that play for just in case purposes.

The other play was late in the game at Atlanta. On a crucial 3rd down, Carmicheal goes empty backfield & 5 receivers. Strief is coming off of sports hernia & gets no help with Jon Abraham. Abraham explodes by Strief for sack & drive thay reaches midfield stalls.

Play design & play calling is what killed the offense in crucial situations. I've already mentioned the problems there were with protections & lack of commitment to run but some of the route combinations this season were pathetic. Carmicheal did not attack the seams with Graham & Colston nor he did call for enough verticals to clear out more space for the underneath receivers. This is why everything seemed cluttered & the throwing lanes were much tighter this season for Brees.

I'm backing Spags because his scheme, if the team can get or develop an elite pass rusher, is a better compliment to a PAYTON run offense & not a CARMICHEAL run offense.







Back to top
memphis tiger
LSU Fan
Memphis, TN
Member since Feb 2006
4819 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


Spags is not a bad DC. Our players on defense just aren't very good.





Back to top
  Replies (0)
Suntiger
USA Fan
BR or somewhere else
Member since Feb 2007
21162 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


Holy Shit! You're blaming Carmichael for the defense?!?!

And hey, if the defense doesn't want to be on the field for ten minutes... Make a stop! Get a turnover! Get off the field yourself. When did it become the offenses job to stop third down conversions, stop a running back from having a 10 yard per carry average or intercept a ball? Defenses get off the field all the time. If the offense isn't playing up to par, the defense has to step up.

And your example was the 2nd half of the Carolina game... That game we lost where they scored 35 points. Why even have a defense? Why not just have 7-on-7 teams?

The least points given up per game were 15 & 17 points per game. The mean was about 20-21 points per game. The worst (us) was 28-29 points per game. That's not on the offense. Stop blaming the offense. The defense gave up those points. The defense gave up long drives for over 7000 yards. If this defense could have been mildly competent, they would have only been giving up 20-24 points per game, but no, they were the 2nd worst in the NFL

Are you one of those 20 year olds and that always got a trophy for everything and blames society for your problems? Because that's basically the equivalent of blaming the defensive issues on the offense and OC.






Back to top
deuce985
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2008
13595 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


Give Spag some time to put people in his system. I've already seen noticeable improvement on our dline, especially Jordan. We just need talent there. We're not talented. Well, we're not talented anywhere on defense really...

Most of these guys do not fit his scheme at all. He has at least this year to right the ship and a draft to do it. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll get any defensive FAs because we're over the cap currently.






Back to top
Suntiger
USA Fan
BR or somewhere else
Member since Feb 2007
21162 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

Give Spag some time to put people in his system.

Most of these guys do not fit his scheme at all. He has at least this year to right the ship


What's his system/scheme? Like I said, I didn't see anything this year that the defense did that impressed me. If he doesn't have the players to run some scheme, change the scheme. And we did nothing well on defense.

Like I said though, I'm willing to give him another year. And I'm not expecting a steel curtain defense. But an average NFL defense isn't too much to ask.






Back to top
blueslover
New Orleans Saints Fan
soon to be south of zero
Member since Sep 2007
20898 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

an average NFL defense isn't too much to ask.

I'm not even there now. Back out of the bottom ten would suffice to get back in the playoffs. There to average+ in two years= domination. It could happen in one though. The NFL seems to get more fluid every year

biggest rank changes for 2011 & 2012 defenses
+22 Denver 24 to 2
+17 Carolina 27 to 10
+15 Minnesota 31 to 15
+13 San Diego 22 to 9
+12 Jets 20 to 8
+12 St Louis 26 to 14
+11 Oakland 29 to 18
-14 Baltimore 3 to 17
-14 Buffalo 8 to 22
-15 Miami 6 to 21
-18 Cleveland 5 to 23
-19 SAINTS 13 to 32
-19 Jacksonville 11 to 30
-19 Tennessee 8 to 27







Back to top
  Replies (0)
BigBrod81
LSU Fan
Houma
Member since Sep 2010
1883 posts
 Online 

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


quote:

Holy Shit! You're blaming Carmichael for the defense?!?!


Are you really this dumb & dense??? I said Carmicheal was the reason for the problems on the offense. If you can't see that the offense's inabilities to consistently stay on the field help contribute to the ridiculous numbers the defense yielded then you are truly a fricking idiot & need to find a sport that is much easier to understand.

You brought some of dumbest points into this conversation that make completely no sense whatsoever. I've been very thorough in making my points while you've just rambled on with.......THE DEFENSE SUCKS!!!

The 7-9 record was a complete effort from the offense, defense, special teams & the coaching staff. Only a person who doesn't understand the game & lacks true insight, would sit there & blame the entire disappointing season on the defense.

quote:

Are you one of those 20 year olds and that always got a trophy for everything and blames society for your problems? Because that's basically the equivalent of blaming the defensive issues on the offense and OC.


Are you one those who never played that the game but because you watch games feel that you are the most knowledgeable & insightful analysts on the planet? If that is the case, then it explains everything because your comprehension abilities are utterly garbage.

Btw, there were positives of Spags scheme to build off but I wouldn't expect a narrow minded SOB like yourself to even notice them. At times, the redzone defense was outstanding. The squad had several goal line stands that were the difference in several games. Also the number of interceptions produced was a positive. Many were the result of zone blites especially the pick 6's by Jenkins, Mack & Vilma.




This post was edited on 1/1 at 4:23 pm


Back to top
Bayou
LSU Fan
Arizona Desert
Member since Feb 2005
24206 posts

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


I think we need to give Spags his fair due. Don't rush to judgement until he gets a normal season to work under. He worked this season with used goods. I think he improves next year.





Back to top
htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
belle chasse
Member since Dec 2012
5285 posts
 Online 

re: Who would you rather for the Saints D-coord


everyone and their mom knows that spags system requires an adequate pass rush from the front four to disrupt all timing and let the db/lbs to make the plays from the qb having to rush the offense too much.

our pass rush was HORRID, do you want to go back to the days of having to blitz on every damn down to get to the qb? 2010 and 2011 were CLEAR examples of what would happen if we had to blitz too much. coaches catch on and our db's are not good enough to go 1v1 repeatedly except MAYBE a healthy greer.

If the team makes some offseason moves and there are no strides in this defense changing in two years, I say cut him. But my question is, do you honestly want to become "that team" that changes coordinators every year and get absolutely no consistency at all? I would hope not because it would bring us back to square one.

this defense is horrid, there are only a handful of players I would even WANT to rebuild a team with. That also doesn't take away the fact this offense is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, one week we can create the perfect balance. 3rd and 1? run the ball, FIRST DOWN! the next week? 3rd and 1, split 4 wide with an empty backfield. oh damn now we got to punt. The story of this offense was a repeat of 2010 horrible at running with a combination of bad play calling. If only our tackles/center would do a good job because half the time the hole wasn't even big enough for a mouse to run by.



This post was edited on 1/1 at 6:14 pm


Back to top


Back to top