Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow | TigerDroppings.com

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Powerman
LSU Fan
Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
120715 posts

Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow



I understand there aren't many social conservatives here but I think it's relevant enough for the poli board

One thing that many conservatives in general cite is that people become more conservative once they get older

This is probably true on issues related to the economy such as regulation, fiscal issues, personal income tax issues etc.

But I'm not so sure that this is true at all when it comes to social issues. Without even looking at any statistics I can promise you that people 21-35 are much likely to support equal marriage rights. People don't go from being for marriage equality to thinking that the government should tell people they can't marry when they're older. CURRENT older people might be more likely to be against things like gay marriage and abortion but that doesn't mean that the youth will change on those issues when they're older.

The only thing that will change with the youth as they age is that they'll be more likely to vote.

DWI







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Pilot Tiger
Georgetown Fan
Washington DC
Member since Nov 2005
62397 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


quote:

"social conservatives" to swallow






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TheJacer
Member since Nov 2012
392 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


quote:

The federal government has no right to regulate marriages or health care (including abortions).


There fixed it for you.






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rsande2
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2006
3423 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


tl;dr

j/k, I may be wrong, but i was under the impression churches did not want to be forced to recognize same sex couples as married but a civil union with the state would be pallatable. Amirite? I think you are right about young ppl and their views.

Also you could add abortion, the fact is roe vs wade is not going to be overturned anytime soon. That is tough for social conservatives to swallow but its just the way it is.....






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Pilot Tiger
Georgetown Fan
Washington DC
Member since Nov 2005
62397 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


quote:

churches did not want to be forced to recognize same sex couples as married but a civil union with the state would be pallatable
churches want to do whatever they want and want the govt to stay out of their business, all the while keeping their non profit status and not paying taxes and wanting God put back in the constitution

makes total sense






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wavebreaker
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2012
467 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


If "gay marriage" (oxymoron) becomes rhe law of the land, gays will go to churches around the country and any church refusing to perform a ceremony will be shut down.

How?

The power to tax is the power to destroy. Tax exempt status will be lost. Argument will be it's a legal marriage and you can't discriminate. Analogous to interracial marriage.

So any Christian standing by what the Bible says will lose their right to assemble as a church.

As for the young and ignorant being socially liberal, yes. Studies show we have an ignorant young population. Brainwashed by TV and movies. Taught nothing but self esteem and PC indoctrination in government schools.
Our students are being dumbed down to make them easier to manipulate.

Will all this get worse?

Yes. As will the crime rate, bastard birth rates, poverty, national debt and insolvency, poor education, collapsing healthcare system, soaring drug use, etc etc.

Things are getting worse each year.

Some call this "progress."







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Pilot Tiger
Georgetown Fan
Washington DC
Member since Nov 2005
62397 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


you are a lunatic FYI





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Powerman
LSU Fan
Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
120715 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


quote:


There fixed it for you.

Oh I'm not in disagreement that it isn't the feds business

I'm just saying don't be shocked when these things are decided at the state level via popular vote and gay marriage passes






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wavebreaker
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2012
467 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


1963 was the year prayer was removed from US public schools. What happened then?


1. For 15 years before 1963 pregnancies in girls ages 15 through 19 years had been no more than 15 per thousand  After 1963 pregnancies increased 187% in the next 15 years.

2. For younger girls, ages 10 to 14 years, pregnancies since 1963 are up 553%.

3. Before 1963 sexually transmitted diseases among students were 400 per 100,000. Since 1963, they were up 226% in the next 12 years.


B. The Family

1. Before 1963 divorce rates had been declining for 15 years. After 1963 divorces increased 300% each year for the next 15 years.

2. Since 1963 unmarried people living together is up 353%

3. Since 1963 single parent families are up 140%.

4. Since 1963 single parent families with children are up 160%.


C. Education

1. The educational standard of measure has been the SAT scores. SAT scores had been steady for many years before 1963. From 1963 they rapidly declined for 18 consecutive years, even though the same test has been used since 1941.

2. In 1974-75 the rate of decline of the SAT scores decreased, even though they continued to decline. That was when there was an explosion of private religious schools. There were only 1000 Christian schools in 1965. Between 1974 to 1984 they increased to 32,000.

a. That could have an impact if the private schools had higher SAT scores. In checking with the SAT Board it was found that indeed the SAT scores for private schools were nearly 100 points higher than public schools.

b. In fact the scores were at the point where the public schools had been before their decline started in 1963 when prayer and Bible reading/ instruction was removed from the schools.

c. The scores in the public schools were still declining.

3. Of the nation's top academic scholars, three times as many come from private religious schools, which operate on one-third the funds as do the public schools.


D. The Nation

1. Since 1963 violent crime has increased 544%.

3. Illegal drugs have become an enormous & uncontrollable problem.

2. The nation has been deprived of an estimated 30 million citizens through legal abortions just since 1973.






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Powerman
LSU Fan
Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
120715 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


quote:

churches want to do whatever they want and want the govt to stay out of their business, all the while keeping their non profit status and not paying taxes and wanting God put back in the constitution

makes total sense

Yep

They want to have their cake and eat it too. Just like everyone else.






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urinetrouble
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2007
15706 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


quote:

But I'm not so sure that this is true at all when it comes to social issues. Without even looking at any statistics I can promise you that people 21-35 are much likely to support equal marriage rights. People don't go from being for marriage equality to thinking that the government should tell people they can't marry when they're older. CURRENT older people might be more likely to be against things like gay marriage and abortion but that doesn't mean that the youth will change on those issues when they're older.


The younger generation is definitely more supportive of gay marriage. The trajectory on that issue is obvious and the GOP will be on the wrong side of history.

I'm not so sure about abortion. I haven't seen any data on the younger generation alone, but a recent Gallup poll has shown the country as a whole becoming more pro-life over the past couple decades.






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Powerman
LSU Fan
Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
120715 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


quote:


I'm not so sure about abortion. I haven't seen any data on the younger generation alone, but a recent Gallup poll has shown the country as a whole becoming more pro-life over the past couple decades.


I'd buy that

But they aren't hard core pro lifers that are against contraception






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NaturalBeam
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
13113 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


Your side is eventually going to lose this argument. Out of curiosity, how old are you? Your generation will soon be unable to vote, and the newer wave of real conservatives who DGAF about gay marriage will take over the party and we can finally start winning elections again and turning the economy around.





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GeauxTigerTM
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
11843 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


quote:

One thing that many conservatives in general cite is that people become more conservative once they get older

This is probably true on issues related to the economy such as regulation, fiscal issues, personal income tax issues etc.

But I'm not so sure that this is true at all when it comes to social issues. Without even looking at any statistics I can promise you that people 21-35 are much likely to support equal marriage rights. People don't go from being for marriage equality to thinking that the government should tell people they can't marry when they're older. CURRENT older people might be more likely to be against things like gay marriage and abortion but that doesn't mean that the youth will change on those issues when they're older.

The only thing that will change with the youth as they age is that they'll be more likely to vote.


Agree.

This has actually been what's happened to me. I registered as a republican when I turned 18 and voted that way in EVERY election except for Duke-Edwards...until this one, where I voted Libertarian. My religious views have been well documented here, but that shift to the right by the GOP on those types of issues drove me away. While I'm still fiscally conservative, I'm no longer NEARLY as strident when it comes to social issues. In fact, the only place where I find myself in agreement with conservatives on social issues is my dislike of abortion, though we reach that place from VERY different directions.

As I've gotten older (42) I simply see more gray where before it was nearly always black or white, right or wrong.






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Wolfhound45
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
17615 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


quote:

you are a lunatic FYI


How so? He stated the truth. Once gay marriage becomes the law of the land those religious organizations that cannot in good conscience support it will be targeted for persecution.

If that is not true, then please tell me what will happen to those whose religious beliefs cannot support this.






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Patrick O Rly
New Orleans Saints Fan
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
38223 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


I'm socially conservative in my own life. I think homosexual relationships are a sin, but I've come to the conclusion that the state isn't a proper medium to spread or enforce Christian doctrine. I haven't heard a convincing argument why two consenting adults can't enter into a secular government contract.

As far as the churches go, there will most certainly be some activist types who will try to make a statement, but there will also be plenty of churches who will perform gay marriages. There already are.






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Powerman
LSU Fan
Corpus Christi, TX
Member since Jan 2004
120715 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


quote:



How so? He stated the truth. Once gay marriage becomes the law of the land those religious organizations that cannot in good conscience support it will be targeted for persecution.


Explain to me how this is necessarily a bad thing







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NaturalBeam
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
13113 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


quote:

This has actually been what's happened to me. I registered as a republican when I turned 18 and voted that way in EVERY election except for Duke-Edwards...until this one, where I voted Libertarian. My religious views have been well documented here, but that shift to the right by the GOP on those types of issues drove me away.
I'm the same way, though I only disagree with your take on the GOP moving farther right on social issues. I say they have swung far left. Since when did more regulation and gov't become a conservative attribute? frick that. I want little gov't in both fiscal and social issues. I'm the conservative here, not the big-gov't GOPers.






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eelsuee
LSU Fan
2B+!2B
Member since Oct 2004
3981 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


quote:

Some tough truths


quote:

This is probably true...
But I'm not so sure that this is true...
Without even looking at any statistics I can promise you...



While I am not sure if you are right or not, this is clearly an emotional argument.






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Wolfhound45
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
17615 posts

re: Some tough truths for "social conservatives" to swallow


quote:

Explain to me how this is necessarily a bad thing


Persecution? Not a bad thing? Am I reading your question correctly?

ETA: My friend, if you think it is okay to persecute based upon religious beliefs, then our country has definitely come full circle. We are now Europe in the 1600s.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.





This post was edited on 11/21 at 8:22 am


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