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Started By
Message
The way-too obvious way to succeed on offense
Posted on 10/22/12 at 9:43 am
Posted on 10/22/12 at 9:43 am
It's been a while since i've posted, and I haven't been patrolling the board, so maybe it's been covered, but I haven't seen much talk about it: Play-Action
I don't know where or how to verify this, but I would bet that LSU has easily run the fewest play fakes to date in all of college football.
I kept hearing talk from fans about how Mettenberger sucks and about how our receivers can't get any separation, but with the exception of long third downs from shotgun, just about every passing play we run starts with the QB behind center and just dropping back, and given that we've probably never run a draw on a play like this, we're making it way too easy for defenses to know what we're doing.
It's basic offensive strategy that, especially in conjunction with an effective running game, calling play-action passes is effecting in manufacturing separation FOR your receivers, especially against talented DB's. One half-step bite by a safety or corner can spring a receiver free, thus making it easier to complete passes and gain YAC. Sounds simple, right? So why don't we do it?
For that matter, we rarely run any counters or other misdirection plays; we rely far too much on personnel and barely any on creative or even, as said, simple ways to create passing and running lanes. We treat some basic misdirection plays as trick plays, and we reserve their use to only fourth down and other critical in-game situations, such as that very effective wildcat pitch against A&M.
Not to mention, just a little bit of balance would go a long way toward making our excellent run game that much more effective, especially againts an opponent like Alabama. (see 2nd half vs. Florida)
I've even heard people say that we were saving all our play-action passing plays all year for 'Bama. Seriously?
I know our receivers have dropped some open passes, but effective, untelegraphed playcalling is the only way to generated some rhythm and confidence in our passing game - starting with our quarterback, and we've survived so far, but it has to start now.
I don't know where or how to verify this, but I would bet that LSU has easily run the fewest play fakes to date in all of college football.
I kept hearing talk from fans about how Mettenberger sucks and about how our receivers can't get any separation, but with the exception of long third downs from shotgun, just about every passing play we run starts with the QB behind center and just dropping back, and given that we've probably never run a draw on a play like this, we're making it way too easy for defenses to know what we're doing.
It's basic offensive strategy that, especially in conjunction with an effective running game, calling play-action passes is effecting in manufacturing separation FOR your receivers, especially against talented DB's. One half-step bite by a safety or corner can spring a receiver free, thus making it easier to complete passes and gain YAC. Sounds simple, right? So why don't we do it?
For that matter, we rarely run any counters or other misdirection plays; we rely far too much on personnel and barely any on creative or even, as said, simple ways to create passing and running lanes. We treat some basic misdirection plays as trick plays, and we reserve their use to only fourth down and other critical in-game situations, such as that very effective wildcat pitch against A&M.
Not to mention, just a little bit of balance would go a long way toward making our excellent run game that much more effective, especially againts an opponent like Alabama. (see 2nd half vs. Florida)
I've even heard people say that we were saving all our play-action passing plays all year for 'Bama. Seriously?
I know our receivers have dropped some open passes, but effective, untelegraphed playcalling is the only way to generated some rhythm and confidence in our passing game - starting with our quarterback, and we've survived so far, but it has to start now.
9
Posted on 10/22/12 at 9:53 am to misterdavamoto
YEP. Been covered.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 9:55 am to misterdavamoto
quote:
but effective, untelegraphed playcalling is the only way to generated some rhythm and confidence in our passing game
Amen. In the SC game and the TAMU game, Studrawa on multiple occasions called the EXACT same pass play on consecutive snaps. Too often the offense is predicated on low-percentage plays --- 30 yard verticals and behind-scrimmage tosses and screens. SEC defenses are too damn good and too damn fast for that sort of nonsense to work.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 9:56 am to misterdavamoto
quote:
Play-Action
Tell me more about this.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 9:58 am to misterdavamoto
Posted on 10/22/12 at 9:58 am to Topwater Trout
i don't think we even need play action. If we simply pass out of our running set without the fake, as we did for just a little while during the a&m game with great success, we can do better.
we've got to break tendency more frequently.
we've got to break tendency more frequently.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 9:59 am to jmon
It's such a dicotamy to watch LSU on sat, with NO PA passes, then Sun watching Brees use PA to perfection and so often that the announcers go on and on how the saints have to successfully run the ball for the PA to work, meanwhile, saints are throwing 40+ passes a game. When I see Drew handoff, I can call it as a PA bc we barely run the ball, and he seems to always hit the deep ball on PA..
Meanwhile LSU runs very effectively and the PA is non-existent, very frustrating and strange to me.
Meanwhile LSU runs very effectively and the PA is non-existent, very frustrating and strange to me.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 10:02 am to misterdavamoto
We leave 1 or 2 TDs on the field every game because a wide open WR is missed or the WR screws up the route/or fumbles.
The big plays in the passing game are there, Mett just isn't connecting on them.
The big plays in the passing game are there, Mett just isn't connecting on them.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 10:03 am to misterdavamoto
quote:
Play-Action
what is this Play-Action you speak of? Is this something recently employed by some teams?
Posted on 10/22/12 at 10:30 am to vjp819
quote:
what is this Play-Action you speak of? Is this something recently employed by some teams?
I think it's pretty new. I overheard someone say the words last week so i googled em
Posted on 10/22/12 at 11:07 am to misterdavamoto
it would really throw them off, if mett even points out the direction behind his back, for the rb to run, like he (and all qbs of the last few years) does on running plays.
is the defense not supposed to see/recognize it's a run when he does that? what am I missing?
is the defense not supposed to see/recognize it's a run when he does that? what am I missing?
Posted on 10/22/12 at 11:11 am to misterdavamoto
Warecat Zone Read option plays a few times then playaction that shite and let Ware bomb one....
Posted on 10/22/12 at 2:45 pm to Tiger Nation 84
quote:
Warecat Zone Read option plays a few times then playaction that shite and let Ware bomb one....
There's no way we would do that, because that would be totally unexpected
Posted on 10/22/12 at 2:58 pm to misterdavamoto
I've seen lots of play action so not sure what you mean. It's subtle but it happens in the I-form. Sometimes there is a straight drop and sometimes mett looks back at the RB, runs towards him, then turns to throw. Don't know how you've missed that considering it happens like 8 times a game. I agree on counter and misdirection though. Not enough plays where OL pulls either.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 3:03 pm to Ebbandflow
quote:
Sometimes there is a straight drop and sometimes mett looks back at the RB, runs towards him
... and doesn't fake the give
That's not gonna keep linebackers or db's guessing.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 3:10 pm to misterdavamoto
Yes it is. He puts his arm out a little. Again not the full play action that you want but it stalls defenders a little considering that LSU runs out of that formation the majority of the time. Defenders are already thinking run from the formation which mean something as subtle as running towards a RB freezes the defense for a second. The fact that only 2 receivers are running the pass pattern has much to do with the lack of separation. If the OL could pass block then more receivers would be out on a pattern and separation success rate would be higher, especially after a quick play action.
Btw, the full play action takes a little longer and our OL can't be depended on for pass blocking.
Btw, the full play action takes a little longer and our OL can't be depended on for pass blocking.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 3:11 pm to misterdavamoto
We had a nice PA pass to a wide open TE vs aTm but mett overthrew it iirc
Posted on 10/22/12 at 3:19 pm to The Detroit Lions
over dipping that head down on PA, don't care for that either.
It's been covered but can't be covered enough.
It's been covered but can't be covered enough.
Posted on 10/22/12 at 4:15 pm to cattus
LSU's passing problems involve more than just not utilizing play-action. They have a fundamental lack of knowledge or "will" for the passing game.
First, I don't think they know what a "Left Tackle" is suppose to look like, or good pass blocking for that matter. It's evidenced by the past couple of years, and the pounding of every quarterback that's played, unless they just threw int's to keep from being hit.
Second, the limiting of the routes. LSU has all but given up throwing passes towards the middle of the field. This would be the "sweet spot" for play-action passes because you suck the linebackers up and create space to throw the ball. However, LSU is reluctant to go there, opting instead to go deep down the sideline on play-action. This is fundamentally unsound because cornerbacks primarily cover the pass, not the run. They back-up first and don't respond to the threat of the run like linebackers. Thus, this gives the appearance that LSU's wideouts run either "outs," "slants," "hooks," "post," "corners," or "go's." All of these routes take place on the sideline and they don't challege a defensive backs ability to move laterally; thus, the lack of separation with our receivers running their routes.
Third, the lack of passing concepts. I have not really seen some of the basic passing concepts like flooding zones or running routes to the weakness of them; running away from "man-to-man" or using "picks" and "rubs" to create space. I don't see them beating the "blitz" by throwing where it came from. I haven't seen them try to isolate receivers on linebackers, safties, or just the defenses worst cover guy.
These are basic concepts and I know them from just watching football. LSU doesn't really use them, and if they do, they don't use them consistently. I'll be fair and say that I saw them "flood" zones a few times against Washington, and that "Double Post" play, where Mett overthrew OBJ, that's a type of "flood." However, the offense doesn't do these things consistently because it lacks coordination.
First, I don't think they know what a "Left Tackle" is suppose to look like, or good pass blocking for that matter. It's evidenced by the past couple of years, and the pounding of every quarterback that's played, unless they just threw int's to keep from being hit.
Second, the limiting of the routes. LSU has all but given up throwing passes towards the middle of the field. This would be the "sweet spot" for play-action passes because you suck the linebackers up and create space to throw the ball. However, LSU is reluctant to go there, opting instead to go deep down the sideline on play-action. This is fundamentally unsound because cornerbacks primarily cover the pass, not the run. They back-up first and don't respond to the threat of the run like linebackers. Thus, this gives the appearance that LSU's wideouts run either "outs," "slants," "hooks," "post," "corners," or "go's." All of these routes take place on the sideline and they don't challege a defensive backs ability to move laterally; thus, the lack of separation with our receivers running their routes.
Third, the lack of passing concepts. I have not really seen some of the basic passing concepts like flooding zones or running routes to the weakness of them; running away from "man-to-man" or using "picks" and "rubs" to create space. I don't see them beating the "blitz" by throwing where it came from. I haven't seen them try to isolate receivers on linebackers, safties, or just the defenses worst cover guy.
These are basic concepts and I know them from just watching football. LSU doesn't really use them, and if they do, they don't use them consistently. I'll be fair and say that I saw them "flood" zones a few times against Washington, and that "Double Post" play, where Mett overthrew OBJ, that's a type of "flood." However, the offense doesn't do these things consistently because it lacks coordination.
This post was edited on 10/22/12 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 10/22/12 at 4:42 pm to dahulk
quote:
Play-Action
What is this new concept you speak of?
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