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Message
Where does Paul Dietzel rank amongst LSU football coaches?
Posted on 6/23/12 at 3:42 pm
Posted on 6/23/12 at 3:42 pm
Record per year at LSU:
1955: 3-5-2
1956: 3-7
1957: 5-5
1958: 11-0: Sugar Bowl Champions, #1 Final AP ranking, National Champions
1959: 9-2 Sugar Bowl participant, #3 Final AP ranking
1960: 5-4-1
1961: 10-1: Orange Bowl Champions, #4 Final AP ranking
Overall record at LSU: 46-24-3; .651 win percentage
That is a very strong winning percentage considering Dietzel's predecessor, Gaynell Tinsley, and his legacy owning a .507 winning percentage in 7 seasons (35 wins).
** Would Dietzel be more highly thought of if he wouldn't have returned to West Point? He left a very good foundation for Cholly Mac when he took over in 1962. I usually hear more about the contributions of Arnsparger and DiNardo before I hear about Dietzel's (maybe it's just from my vantage point
). Is there a reason for that other than he coached a long time ago and stayed only 7 years? What kind of a coach was he in terms of demeanor, treatment of the players and media, coaching tendencies (defensive/offensive minded, good XO's, coached based on intuition and feel, players' coach, disciplinarian, etc.), recruiter, overall legacy, etc.? (sorry, long sentence)
** Bonus Question: How successful would LSU have been in the late 80's/early 90's if Arnsparger would not have resigned as LSU's coach to be Florida's AD?
As a youngin, I want to learn more about LSU's history and I enjoy asking people about LSU of yesteryear. It's hard to look objectively at LSU since I was too young to pay attention to the rollercoaster ride that was the 90's, as I was too busy watching Thomas the Tank Engine and the Mutant Ninja Turtles lol, and by the time LSU was consistently relevant I was already in grade school with Saban at the helm....spoiled, I know.
I know :tldr:
1955: 3-5-2
1956: 3-7
1957: 5-5
1958: 11-0: Sugar Bowl Champions, #1 Final AP ranking, National Champions
1959: 9-2 Sugar Bowl participant, #3 Final AP ranking
1960: 5-4-1
1961: 10-1: Orange Bowl Champions, #4 Final AP ranking
Overall record at LSU: 46-24-3; .651 win percentage
That is a very strong winning percentage considering Dietzel's predecessor, Gaynell Tinsley, and his legacy owning a .507 winning percentage in 7 seasons (35 wins).
** Would Dietzel be more highly thought of if he wouldn't have returned to West Point? He left a very good foundation for Cholly Mac when he took over in 1962. I usually hear more about the contributions of Arnsparger and DiNardo before I hear about Dietzel's (maybe it's just from my vantage point
). Is there a reason for that other than he coached a long time ago and stayed only 7 years? What kind of a coach was he in terms of demeanor, treatment of the players and media, coaching tendencies (defensive/offensive minded, good XO's, coached based on intuition and feel, players' coach, disciplinarian, etc.), recruiter, overall legacy, etc.? (sorry, long sentence) ** Bonus Question: How successful would LSU have been in the late 80's/early 90's if Arnsparger would not have resigned as LSU's coach to be Florida's AD?
As a youngin, I want to learn more about LSU's history and I enjoy asking people about LSU of yesteryear. It's hard to look objectively at LSU since I was too young to pay attention to the rollercoaster ride that was the 90's, as I was too busy watching Thomas the Tank Engine and the Mutant Ninja Turtles lol, and by the time LSU was consistently relevant I was already in grade school with Saban at the helm....spoiled, I know.
I know :tldr:
10
Posted on 6/23/12 at 3:44 pm to gwilging
Could have been LSU's Bear Bryant if he had stayed.
Posted on 6/23/12 at 3:57 pm to gwilging
quote:
** Bonus Question: How successful would LSU have been in the late 80's/early 90's if Arnsparger would not have resigned as LSU's coach to be Florida's AD?
The question I hate to think about is if Arnsparger became our A.D. and hired Spurrier in 90. A decade of pain and misery averted.
Posted on 6/23/12 at 4:05 pm to dbt_Geaux_Tigers_196
Why did Paul Dietzel leave again? Did he retire? Or get an offer elsewhere?
I know his grandson FWIW
I know his grandson FWIW
Posted on 6/23/12 at 4:06 pm to Jim Rockford
He's a two-point conversion away from having back-to-back national championships. I wonder if that would have sped up his departure, honestly.
Truthfully, so much time passed between the '58 national championship and the '03 championship that he was ultimately fondly remembered. For all of us until Saban, that '58 team was THE TEAM that everyone remembered, even if they were born 20 or 30 years later. There were definitely games that fans recalled under the Cholly Mac era, and the '69 team is remembered for being slighted, but Dietzel gave us a point to focus on...perhaps to our detriment.
It was a much different time. The game was much different, so I don't know how you can legitimately compare him to Saban, Miles, or even Arnsparger.
That all being said, he is only one of three LSU coaches to ever bring a national championship home. He didn't have to deal with nearly the amount of crap modern coaches do. He was an innovator of the game though, and I would rank him top three for sure.
Truthfully, so much time passed between the '58 national championship and the '03 championship that he was ultimately fondly remembered. For all of us until Saban, that '58 team was THE TEAM that everyone remembered, even if they were born 20 or 30 years later. There were definitely games that fans recalled under the Cholly Mac era, and the '69 team is remembered for being slighted, but Dietzel gave us a point to focus on...perhaps to our detriment.
It was a much different time. The game was much different, so I don't know how you can legitimately compare him to Saban, Miles, or even Arnsparger.
That all being said, he is only one of three LSU coaches to ever bring a national championship home. He didn't have to deal with nearly the amount of crap modern coaches do. He was an innovator of the game though, and I would rank him top three for sure.
Posted on 6/23/12 at 4:09 pm to gwilging
I would rank Dietzel behind only Les and Cholly Mac.
As has been said, imagine if he had stayed at LSU throughout the 60's ? (Not to impugn McClendon's status.)
For that matter, what if Spurrier had been hired instead of Mike Archer ?!!! Saban would have stayed at Michigan State, and the whole space and time continuum would have been thrown off!
What if Bo Rein's plane had not drifted up higher and killed him in the spring of 1980?
Or, what if Robiskie is hired as head coach instead of Dinardo??
What if Miles had gone to Michigan?
What if I shut up?
As has been said, imagine if he had stayed at LSU throughout the 60's ? (Not to impugn McClendon's status.)
For that matter, what if Spurrier had been hired instead of Mike Archer ?!!! Saban would have stayed at Michigan State, and the whole space and time continuum would have been thrown off!
What if Bo Rein's plane had not drifted up higher and killed him in the spring of 1980?
Or, what if Robiskie is hired as head coach instead of Dinardo??
What if Miles had gone to Michigan?
What if I shut up?
This post was edited on 6/23/12 at 4:10 pm
Posted on 6/23/12 at 4:10 pm to Sev09
quote:
Why did Paul Dietzel leave again? Did he retire? Or get an offer elsewhere?
He left for Army, when Army was still a prestige CFB program. Vietnam and the draft took care of that soon after he arrived.
Posted on 6/23/12 at 4:11 pm to Sev09
The rumor is he was sleeping with too many secretaries or something like that. I don't know how accurate that is. It was way before I was born, but at this point it's a well known Intrawebz theory.
At least he coached South Carolina to its one and only football conference title in 1969.
At least he coached South Carolina to its one and only football conference title in 1969.
Posted on 6/23/12 at 4:13 pm to MetryTyger
quote:Uhh, no Saban?
I would rank Dietzel behind only Les and Cholly Mac.
Posted on 6/23/12 at 5:12 pm to gwilging
quote:
Uhh, no Saban?
Yeah, definitely have to have him there. Took a 2-9 team and won 2 Conference Championships and a BCS CG (plus a Sugar bowl win over Illinois) in 4 years. Remarkable.
Posted on 6/23/12 at 5:19 pm to gwilging
Pepsodent Paul later came back as AD to fire Mac. He was later fired by the BOS. If he had not come back as AD, he would probably have been more fondly remembered - at least by us oldtimers.
Posted on 6/23/12 at 5:38 pm to gwilging
Dietzel is 3A with Mac.
Miles is 1
Saban is 2
Dietzel is 3A
Mac is 3B.
Bernie Moore is 4 (or 5, if you want to be hyper-technical).
Any questions?
Miles is 1
Saban is 2
Dietzel is 3A
Mac is 3B.
Bernie Moore is 4 (or 5, if you want to be hyper-technical).
Any questions?
This post was edited on 6/23/12 at 5:40 pm
Posted on 6/23/12 at 5:53 pm to gwilging
quote:
1961: 10-1: Orange Bowl Champions, #4 Final AP ranking
Also SEC co-champs that year.
Dietzel won the national title but his teams were also kind of up and down from year to year (including his tenures at Army and South Carolina). I think Charlie Mac's first dozen years were stable enough to where I would put Mac above Dietzel as a whole. Plus, he never left LSU like Dietzel--there's something to be said about loyalty and longevity. Now, Mac's last six years as coach were a little more rough. Although integration was a tough process from some schools, I don't think that was as big an issue for Mac as the fact that he kept losing quarterbacks after Bert Jones. Often a back-up QB inherited an offensive system designed completely for a starter who was no longer with the team.
Posted on 6/23/12 at 6:04 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Bernie Moore is 4
Glad that someone remembered one of the early greats of LSU. People don't realize that LSU has had a number of College Football Hall of Fame entries who got there for their coaching (not playing) duties. Dana X. Bible, Mike Donahue, Biff Jones, Bernie Moore, and Charlie McClendon are some. Jerry Stovall just got inducted (more so for his Heisman runner-up finish than his coaching duties). Nick Saban and Les Miles will be there one day, maybe Paul Dietzel...
This post was edited on 6/23/12 at 6:05 pm
Posted on 6/23/12 at 6:14 pm to TheDude321
quote:
Could have been LSU's Bear Bryant if he had stayed.
Spot on !
Posted on 6/23/12 at 6:23 pm to gwilging
How successful would LSU have been in the late 80's/early 90's if Arnsparger would not have resigned as LSU's coach to be Florida's AD?
Arnsparger probably would have brought us a national championship or national championships if he had stayed. The program was definitely headed in that direction when he left.
Arnsparger probably would have brought us a national championship or national championships if he had stayed. The program was definitely headed in that direction when he left.
Posted on 6/23/12 at 6:26 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
The rumor is he was sleeping with too many secretaries or something like that. I don't know how accurate that is. It was way before I was born, but at this point it's a well known Intrawebz theory.
My dad was recruited by Paul Dietzel, said he was "shtoinkin" cheerleaders and sorority chicks.
Posted on 6/23/12 at 6:43 pm to DaSaltyTiger
quote:Was McClendon beloved when Dietzel fired him or something? Also why did Dietzel resigned/get fired as AD?
Pepsodent Paul later came back as AD to fire Mac. He was later fired by the BOS. If he had not come back as AD, he would probably have been more fondly remembered - at least by us oldtimers.
Posted on 6/23/12 at 6:43 pm to TheDude321
quote:
1961: 10-1: Orange Bowl Champions, #4 Final AP ranking
Lost to Rice in opener 3-16! Yuck! Then rolled thruogh undefeated. Were we SEC co-champs with OM?
Posted on 6/23/12 at 6:46 pm to gwilging
quote:
Was McClendon beloved when Dietzel fired him or something? Also why did Dietzel resigned/get fired as AD?
Was, but continous losses to Gumps throughout the 70's administration and fans had him on short lease. Remember the Help Mac Pac rallys, pretty silly really but I did participate just because seemed like the game was about to pass Mac by with speed, offenses,etc.
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