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re: Where does Paul Dietzel rank amongst LSU football coaches?

Posted on 6/23/12 at 6:47 pm to
Posted by DaSaltyTiger
Alexandria/Pineville, LA area
Member since Dec 2004
4689 posts
Posted on 6/23/12 at 6:47 pm to
What blew up on Mac was that he had revamped the offense just for Mike Miley (who was the QB after Bert Jones). Mike had the potential of being a great QB and played one year as the starter along with Billy Broussard. The Tigers were undefeated going into the Alabama game. They lost against Alabama and then against Tulane. Rumors were about that Miley was beginning to doubt himself. They then lost the Orange Bowl against Jo Pa and Penn St. Miley was also a good baseball player. He went through the following spring practice at which time Mac had retooled the offense to better meet Miley's abilities (went to the Veer) and then shortly thereafter Miley signed a pro baseball contract. Mac was left with Billy Broussard and a freshman by the name of Carl Otis Trimble (who would become LSU's first starting black QB, which definitely caused some issues at the time amongst supporters). Trimble could run, but couldn't hit the broad side of a red barn when passing. It sunk us. Unfortunately, Mac did not have enough time to revert the offensive scheme as he was going into fall practice. Otherwise, Broussard might have started more. Later, it would be Pat Lyons (Paul's brother) and Bobby Moreau. Bobby was not meant to be a QB, and I really did not even see that when he was in high school. However, he was eventually moved to defense and did ok there. He has gone on to bigger and better things including being a college FB ref. Pat did what he could, but things were simply in too much disarray by then. The team really did not start rising from the ashes until Ensminger and Woodley took the reins. Steve and David were Mac's last two QBs.
Posted by ElderTiger
Planet Earth
Member since Dec 2010
6996 posts
Posted on 6/23/12 at 7:56 pm to
quote:

Was McClendon beloved when Dietzel fired him or something? Also why did Dietzel resigned/get fired as AD?


A year before Cholly Mac coached his last season, it was generally understood that it was time for him to step down. They brought in Dietzel as AD with the understanding that he was going to have to let him go. What got so many fans riled up was the way it was handled. The BOS met at the LSUA campus and while they were debating what to do, Coach Mac was left to sit in his car in the parking lot and wait. Coach Mac had done nothing but handle his job with class for the 25+ years he was at LSU and deserved better.
He did have a chance to go out in style during his last season if he could have beaten the 2 #1 teams that played in Tiger Stadium that year, but it wasn't to be.
Still, he was a great guy...met him once at his golf tournament and two minutes later he made me feel like I had known him for years.
Personality wise, he and Les Miles are very similar.

One of his funniest quotes:
For several years, there were signs and bumper stickers that said "Help Mac Pack". When he was moving to take the job in Orlando, a reporter showed up at his house and he said he was disappointed that all those people that wanted to Help Mac Pack were nowhere to be found when he needed them !!!!!
Posted by Pietra
Member since May 2007
752 posts
Posted on 6/23/12 at 9:17 pm to
It was very common for some of the faculty at LSU to refer to him as “Catch them in the hall, Paul.” He liked them young and willing. Fortunately for him, Army offered him a position just when things were getting heated between him and a young staffer’s husband.

Of course that probably is a rumor since I heard it from fewer than 10 different sources in the early 60’s, wink, wink, nod, nod, you know what I mean?
Posted by gwilging
Virginia Beach, VA
Member since Mar 2011
1396 posts
Posted on 6/23/12 at 11:14 pm to
quote:

The BOS met at the LSUA campus and while they were debating what to do, Coach Mac was left to sit in his car in the parking lot and wait.
Man, that's messed up. Totally not professional. Btw, what is BOS?
Posted by Coon
La 56 Southbound
Member since Feb 2005
18492 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 7:24 am to
Board of supervisors
Posted by JawjaTigah
Bizarro World
Member since Sep 2003
22499 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 7:33 am to
quote:

Dietzel is 3A with Mac.
As one who lived those years, esp. the Mac years (I was young during Pepsodent Paul's tenure), I am partial to Mac, even though he didn't win any National Championships. So I'd reverse it and say Mac 3A and Dietzel 3B. I also clearly remember the Pro/Anti Dietzel (and) Pro/Anti Mac wars that followed his departure to West Point. I was not happy that he came back to fire Mac. This was very bad karma and LSU suffered thru a decade or more of malaise following that injustice. Mac should have been promoted to AD (not Dietzel) with the assigned privilege of finding a new HC to replace himself, and thus given the dignity of being deservedly loved by the whole LSU Nation. Nobody knew LSU football in those days better than Cholly Mac.
This post was edited on 6/24/12 at 7:34 am
Posted by LSUwag
Florida man
Member since Jan 2007
17319 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 8:02 am to
quote:

How successful would LSU have been in the late 80's/early 90's if Arnsparger would not have resigned as LSU's coach to be Florida's AD?


Not only did he up and quit but, he strongly recommended that we promote Mike Archer to head coach. LSU did just that and the rest is history.

I personally think he intentionally tanked LSU so that UF would have the upper hand.

Posted by tigger1
Member since Mar 2005
3476 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 8:10 am to
Paul left for off the field issues, not many around today know the stories...ask around you will find out.

Paul was a middle of the road coach, who hit a windfall with the 1956 recruiting class and Tommy Davis coming in form the service, that still maybe one of the best 2-3 ever recruitng classes in LSU history.

Paul would not stay with his game plan at time come gameday (that coming form a number of his players).

For those wanting Mac as AD, I don't think he would have been up for the job. He loved LSU as well as Joe Dean, but there are some jobs people just are not good at (like Dean as AD).


Paul as far as where I would place him as a coach all time at LSU, well ahead of Mac and behind Saban and Les....

Wingard was a better overall coach than Paul, but Wingard is in the long past and most don't know him.

Moore is the closest to Paul as you can get when looking at our coaches from the past. I put Paul just ahead of Moore.
Posted by cajunjj
Madison, AL
Member since May 2008
7427 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 8:45 am to
3rd. If he would have stayed probably the best!
Posted by dbt_Geaux_Tigers_196
Dystopia (but well cared for)
Member since Mar 2012
25235 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 8:50 am to
quote:

Nobody knew LSU football in those days better than Cholly Mac.

I always thought him the face of LSU football, as much as Mike the Tiger and Saturday Night under the lights (back when there was such a thing)...probably due to my age.
Posted by nitwit
Member since Oct 2007
12234 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:29 pm to
Paul Dietzel was nothing special as a coach and was a poor AD. Is undeserving of special notoriety.
Mac was a very good coach, and very personable. However, he was unable to keep up with changes in the game on offense and became an anachronism. Good man, great coach for years, but should have stepped down earlier.
Posted by LayupKing
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2011
266 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 2:28 pm to
McClendon played a more difficult schedule than Dietzel.
After Dietzel left, LSU started playing Ole Miss and Alabama on consecutive Saturdays. That was at a time when Ole Miss was one of top teams in the SEC. A horrible stretch of injuries to star qb's -- Pat Screen's shoulder seperation in 1963 and knee injury in 1964 plus knee injuries to Nelson Stokley in 1965 and 1966 --had LSU playing the most difficult part of their schedule with a No. 2 qb.

Talk to some of the players on the 1959 team. Many of them felt that Dietzel should have gone for the first down (and touchdown) on two drives deep in Tennessee territory. LSU tried and missed two field goals instead. They say it was a sideline meltdown equal that of Miles in Oxford.

1. Miles
2. Saban
3. Arnsparger
4. McClendon
5. Biff Jones
6. Paul Dietzel
7. Bernie Moore (1935 and 1936 teams may have been equal to LSU's 1958 and 1959 teams in talent)
Posted by gwilging
Virginia Beach, VA
Member since Mar 2011
1396 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 4:42 pm to
So basically Dietzel was the beneficiary of a few good recruiting classes and a weaker schedule?
Posted by Lonnie4LSU
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2008
9525 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 4:48 pm to
quote:

** if Arnsparger would not have resigned as LSU's coach to be Florida's AD?


I always had the feeling Bill had both jobs his final yr at LSU.

Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89516 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 4:54 pm to
quote:

So I'd reverse it and say Mac 3A and Dietzel 3B.


I literally only put them "A" and "B" because of chronological order. I love Mac far more than Dietzel. For those wanting to discount Mac as ending without a championship, I always give him partial credit for the '58.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 5:15 pm to
I think you have to give Dietzel a lot of credit for the platoon system from '58 and the physical conditioning of his team. (This is back when Alvin Roy out of Istrouma was a huge deal in terms of putting Baton Rouge ahead of the curve in terms of strength & conditioning training.)

The morale of the football program seems to have been sky high too, and Dietzel fit the clean cut, pro-military image of the times, back when LSU was still a huge ROTC school requiring 2 years of training for all undergrads.

Then again, some of those stories I've read recently about Billy Cannon have made me cringe. What a weird scene that must have been with Billy choosing to practice only when he didn't feel like going off around town drinkin' & thuggin'.
Posted by tigger1
Member since Mar 2005
3476 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 5:27 pm to
I am glad to see Billy doing what he does today, but remember take Billy's stories with a step or two back.

When a legend is born, people want to remember the legend not the truth.....

so it goes with many stars.

Many of stories about him have not seen the light of day and some stories that are out there change history to make the legend larger.

Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 5:28 pm to
I see McClendon as a capable coach for his first 10 seasons, but as someone who completely let the game pass him by.

To me it looks like the 1970-73 seasons definitively showed that he couldn't win the big games, and when integration increased in CFB during the mid-70s, LSU's program went into a tailspin.

Dietzel finished in the top 4 of the final AP poll for 3 out of his 4 last years, whereas McClendon never finished better than #7. I think the last season under McClendon where LSU finished in the top 10 of the final AP poll was 1970.
Posted by gwilging
Virginia Beach, VA
Member since Mar 2011
1396 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 5:32 pm to
quote:

Then again, some of those stories I've read recently about Billy Cannon have made me cringe.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 6/24/12 at 5:37 pm to
Mostly I'm just thinking about his cavalier attitude about not attending practice, or dealing with pro agents while he was still playing for LSU.

Billy Cannon reminds me of J.R. Ewing sometimes.
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