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Started By
Message
Who Is Your 3RD RD Pick? Any #59's still around?
Posted on 1/28/12 at 9:26 am
Posted on 1/28/12 at 9:26 am
I've taken the nominees from the Gil Brandt Top 100 list to look at a little closer and discuss. Add your personal insight, scouting reports, other ratings, videos, etc. Maybe we can hone it down to a few consensus favorites.
Vinny Curry, DE, Marshall
Bruce Irvin, DE, West Virginia
Shea McClellin, OLB, Boise State
Travis Lewis, LB, Oklahoma
Josh Chapman, DT, Alabama
Bobby Wagner, LB, Utah State
Ronnell Lewis, DE, Oklahoma
Lavonte David, LB, Nebrraska
Markelle Martin, S, Oklahoma State
Senior Bowl participants TODAY
Let's get some stuff out on the guys playing at the Sr Bowl first...
Vinny Curry, DE, Marshall
Bruce Irvin, DE, West Virginia
Shea McClellin, OLB, Boise State
Travis Lewis, LB, Oklahoma
Josh Chapman, DT, Alabama
Bobby Wagner, LB, Utah State
Ronnell Lewis, DE, Oklahoma
Lavonte David, LB, Nebrraska
Markelle Martin, S, Oklahoma State
Senior Bowl participants TODAY
Let's get some stuff out on the guys playing at the Sr Bowl first...
This post was edited on 3/25/12 at 12:21 pm
10
Posted on 1/28/12 at 9:31 am to blueslover
A two part pick? If I didn't know any better, I'd say you're playing with it.
:rimshot:
:rimshot:
Posted on 1/28/12 at 9:52 am to blueslover
get the ball rollin with the highest rated name on the list, Vinny Curry...
SR BOWL WEIGH IN NUMBERS
6-3 265
HANDS 9.25
ARMS 32
WINGSPAN 78.25
Vinny Curry is a well-rounded defensive end prospect out of Marshall. This member of the Thundering Herd has shown flashes of first round potential as a three-year starter.
Curry definitely looks the part of an elite, athletic defensive end at 6'4" and 263 pounds. He will have to compete with underclassmen to maintain his early round draft stock, but he's adding a great senior year to an already stacked collegiate resume.
He displays a very good array of pass rushing moves. Whether he is ripping offensive tackles to the ground or shoving them back into the quarterback, he does a great job consistently getting after the quarterback (especially if the pocket collapses). Curry will need to improve his technique on running plays that attack his side of the field. He is sometimes too caught up in attacking the quarterback that he'll either take himself out of position or a well-timed double team will severely compromise his gap assignment.
If he adds some flexibility to his lower half, Curry could end up as a team's leading pass rusher. If he shows explosion during the combine, his stock could be on the rise very quickly.
Curry projects as an early second round prospect in the 2012 NFL Draft.
Last Updated Oct-31-2011
---------------------------
Film Room Notes: vs UAB, vs Memphis
Strengths: Nice size, with sub 4.8 speed – Sudden pass-rusher, uses a good bull rush, conversion rush, and a decent swim move – Uses his hands very well – Recognizes blocking schemes quickly – Very productive, applies consistent pressure on quarterbacks – Closes quickly when he gets a run at the QB – Good motor, doesn’t quit on plays and pursues well – Adept at getting to the ball (6 FF, 2 blocked kicks so far in 2011) – Plays 4-3 DE, but has the skill-set to transition to a rush OLB – Plus intangibles according to teammates and coaches, current team captain.
Weaknesses: Hasn’t played a ton of great competition, but has produced against good teams – Disappears at times against double-teams – Not the most stout, has trouble holding the POA against top OL’s – Will need to add to his repertoire of rush moves.
Last Updated: November 2nd, 2011
-----------------------
Adequate height. Good overall size. A smart, patient player. Does a great job playing to the situation; rarely hurts himself by being overaggressive in his effort to get into the backfield, a common flaw among college ends. Has the ability to be a realiable three-down lineman. Effective pass rusher with a variety of moves. Has the quick burst to be an effective speed rusher, but also the strength to use the bull rush on occasion. Experienced lining up at end in 3-4 and 4-3 formations. Has been productive in his few opportunities against elite competition (great game vs Ohio State in 2010). Could potentially play linebacker in a 3-4 system. Weaknesses: Athleticism is marginal; will struggle dropping into coverage if moved to linebacker. Marginal speed. May not be a consistent pass-rush threat at the next level. Lacks the speed to make plays in pursuit, but does put forth the effort. Level of competition is a minor concern; hasn’t proven himself against top opponents week after week. Comments: Curry lacks the measurables to be considered an elite prospect, but he has a well-rounded skill set which should make him an effective starter at the next level. He’s probably best suited to play with his hand on the ground in a 4-3 system, but 3-4 teams will likely consider him an option at linebacker.
12/13/2011
-------------------------
Player Comparison: LaMarr Woodley
Round Projection: Mid Second Round
LaMarr Woodley is the comparison here due to similar body builds and how they were used in college versus how they will be used in the pros. Only difference is Woodley played elite competition. Still a 3-4 team needing a pass rusher will likely select him in Round 2. Curry helped his stock out a ton by gaining 20 pounds and not losing any speed. With a season or two to work on his coverage skills I believe Curry to become a 9-10 sack a season talent. Teams like Dolphins, Jets, Bills, Patriots, Packers, and Cowboys should take a long look in Round 2 on this guy.
------------------------
Senior Bowl-
---Vic Ketchman, packers.com editor - "A day after leaping to prominence by darting into the backfield and forcing a fumble, the undersized pass rusher was the star of the day in the North squad's practice for Saturday's Senior Bowl game. Following the morning session, Curry was surrounded by scouts seeking personal information.
"He was quick, elusive, forceful and disruptive. He looked every part of a playmaker. Curry was the best of the tweeners in a Senior Bowl that is loaded with tweeners on both teams' rosters.
---Tony Pauline, SI.com draft analyst - "Very athletic, very quick, natural pass rusher. Quick change of direction. Has all the attributes to make the change to outside linebacker in a 3-4."
---New York Times NFL Blog - "Curry showed his quick burst off the edge and ability to penetrate against the run against top competition. There are still blemishes in his game, but he'll have many teams taking a second look at his tape."
---Mike Mayock, NFL Network - "I like Vinny Curry. He plays with a great motor, great leverage. He gets up the field. He's quick. I think he's probably a second-round pick."
VIDEOS
Curry1
Curry2
Curry3
A tweener type, these guys can get premium value if he grades out well as a 3-4 OLB. Looks like it would take some fall on boards to be around at #59. Not so far to be out of the realm of possibility tho. Probably a guy we would like to see have a disappointing combine. This time last year Martez Wilson was in discussion as a late first rounder. He had arguably the worst combine of any player. That's why he fell to the 8th pick in the 3rd Rd, #72 overall. Keep an eye on this guy to see if you might be chanting "VinNY, VinNy, VinNY!" next year.
SR BOWL WEIGH IN NUMBERS
6-3 265
HANDS 9.25
ARMS 32
WINGSPAN 78.25
Vinny Curry is a well-rounded defensive end prospect out of Marshall. This member of the Thundering Herd has shown flashes of first round potential as a three-year starter.
Curry definitely looks the part of an elite, athletic defensive end at 6'4" and 263 pounds. He will have to compete with underclassmen to maintain his early round draft stock, but he's adding a great senior year to an already stacked collegiate resume.
He displays a very good array of pass rushing moves. Whether he is ripping offensive tackles to the ground or shoving them back into the quarterback, he does a great job consistently getting after the quarterback (especially if the pocket collapses). Curry will need to improve his technique on running plays that attack his side of the field. He is sometimes too caught up in attacking the quarterback that he'll either take himself out of position or a well-timed double team will severely compromise his gap assignment.
If he adds some flexibility to his lower half, Curry could end up as a team's leading pass rusher. If he shows explosion during the combine, his stock could be on the rise very quickly.
Curry projects as an early second round prospect in the 2012 NFL Draft.
Last Updated Oct-31-2011
---------------------------
Film Room Notes: vs UAB, vs Memphis
Strengths: Nice size, with sub 4.8 speed – Sudden pass-rusher, uses a good bull rush, conversion rush, and a decent swim move – Uses his hands very well – Recognizes blocking schemes quickly – Very productive, applies consistent pressure on quarterbacks – Closes quickly when he gets a run at the QB – Good motor, doesn’t quit on plays and pursues well – Adept at getting to the ball (6 FF, 2 blocked kicks so far in 2011) – Plays 4-3 DE, but has the skill-set to transition to a rush OLB – Plus intangibles according to teammates and coaches, current team captain.
Weaknesses: Hasn’t played a ton of great competition, but has produced against good teams – Disappears at times against double-teams – Not the most stout, has trouble holding the POA against top OL’s – Will need to add to his repertoire of rush moves.
Last Updated: November 2nd, 2011
-----------------------
Adequate height. Good overall size. A smart, patient player. Does a great job playing to the situation; rarely hurts himself by being overaggressive in his effort to get into the backfield, a common flaw among college ends. Has the ability to be a realiable three-down lineman. Effective pass rusher with a variety of moves. Has the quick burst to be an effective speed rusher, but also the strength to use the bull rush on occasion. Experienced lining up at end in 3-4 and 4-3 formations. Has been productive in his few opportunities against elite competition (great game vs Ohio State in 2010). Could potentially play linebacker in a 3-4 system. Weaknesses: Athleticism is marginal; will struggle dropping into coverage if moved to linebacker. Marginal speed. May not be a consistent pass-rush threat at the next level. Lacks the speed to make plays in pursuit, but does put forth the effort. Level of competition is a minor concern; hasn’t proven himself against top opponents week after week. Comments: Curry lacks the measurables to be considered an elite prospect, but he has a well-rounded skill set which should make him an effective starter at the next level. He’s probably best suited to play with his hand on the ground in a 4-3 system, but 3-4 teams will likely consider him an option at linebacker.
12/13/2011
-------------------------
Player Comparison: LaMarr Woodley
Round Projection: Mid Second Round
LaMarr Woodley is the comparison here due to similar body builds and how they were used in college versus how they will be used in the pros. Only difference is Woodley played elite competition. Still a 3-4 team needing a pass rusher will likely select him in Round 2. Curry helped his stock out a ton by gaining 20 pounds and not losing any speed. With a season or two to work on his coverage skills I believe Curry to become a 9-10 sack a season talent. Teams like Dolphins, Jets, Bills, Patriots, Packers, and Cowboys should take a long look in Round 2 on this guy.
------------------------
Senior Bowl-
---Vic Ketchman, packers.com editor - "A day after leaping to prominence by darting into the backfield and forcing a fumble, the undersized pass rusher was the star of the day in the North squad's practice for Saturday's Senior Bowl game. Following the morning session, Curry was surrounded by scouts seeking personal information.
"He was quick, elusive, forceful and disruptive. He looked every part of a playmaker. Curry was the best of the tweeners in a Senior Bowl that is loaded with tweeners on both teams' rosters.
---Tony Pauline, SI.com draft analyst - "Very athletic, very quick, natural pass rusher. Quick change of direction. Has all the attributes to make the change to outside linebacker in a 3-4."
---New York Times NFL Blog - "Curry showed his quick burst off the edge and ability to penetrate against the run against top competition. There are still blemishes in his game, but he'll have many teams taking a second look at his tape."
---Mike Mayock, NFL Network - "I like Vinny Curry. He plays with a great motor, great leverage. He gets up the field. He's quick. I think he's probably a second-round pick."
VIDEOS
Curry1
Curry2
Curry3
A tweener type, these guys can get premium value if he grades out well as a 3-4 OLB. Looks like it would take some fall on boards to be around at #59. Not so far to be out of the realm of possibility tho. Probably a guy we would like to see have a disappointing combine. This time last year Martez Wilson was in discussion as a late first rounder. He had arguably the worst combine of any player. That's why he fell to the 8th pick in the 3rd Rd, #72 overall. Keep an eye on this guy to see if you might be chanting "VinNY, VinNy, VinNY!" next year.
This post was edited on 1/28/12 at 1:42 pm
Posted on 1/28/12 at 9:55 am to blueslover
quote:
Lavonte David, LB, Nebrraska
Coached by Bo Pelini, this guy can play some ball.
Evidence?
LINK
LINK
LINK
ETA:
"Lavonte David, OLB, Nebraska: At only 6-0, 225 pounds and with a maxed-out frame, Lavonte David doesn't necessarily look like a prototypical first-round linebacker, but his play says otherwise. He flies around the field with controlled aggression, looking natural bursting in any direction with very good first-step quickness. David doesn't have ideal strength to tear through blocks, but where he separates himself from the pack is his ability to find the ball and finish with a competitive drive. Also rare is his ability in reverse with smooth hip action and fluid footwork to drop and cover. David was a tackling machine in Lincoln with 285 tackles the past two seasons for the Huskers and displayed a passion for the game of football that carried over to Senior Bowl practice."
"LB Lavonte David, Nebraska: One of the more impressive players so far this week has been Lavonte David, the tackling machine from Lincoln. However where he has been most impressive is his drops, showing fluid hips and above average footwork for a linebacker when asked to turn and run. David isn't the most physically imposing at 6-0 1/2" and 225 pounds, but he is a sure-tackler with the first step quickness and natural instincts needed for the position."
"Read & React: Tough player with excellent instincts and quick reaction time, involves himself in many run and pass plays all over the field. Occasionally guesses, flying into holes instead of finding the ball then attacking it and leaving his area open to receivers and running lanes.
Run defense: Plays mostly in the box, flies through creases to wrap up the legs of backs trying to find a hole or attempting to get to the sideline. Despite his lack of size, attacks oncoming linemen with a punch or stiff-arm into their chest and makes tackles in the box with blockers on his back. Gives and gets the worst of collisions inside.
Pass defense: Strong in coverage, often used as the only linebacker on the field against spread defenses. Possesses the quickness to stay with running backs on wheel routes or trail across the middle. Stays with underneath routes while in zone, able to break up passes in front of receivers with front hand without interfering. Gives up size to most NFL-caliber tight ends and better backs separate during routes with length and strength. Bites on aggressive arrow routes, loses his balance when trying to change directions at times.
Tackling: Hustling chase tackler who hits the thighs and wraps up legs very effectively. Tries to strip the ball when tackle is secured, has good success even against tight ends. Bigger ballcarriers can stiff-arm him in the open field because of his lack of size and length, but it does not happen too often.
Pass Rush/Blitz: Explodes through creases to reach the passer, bringing down most with a strong hit. Also chases down quarterbacks escaping the pocket to rack up sacks. Rips off running back blocks to chase the passer but freezes too often when initially facing them, making him late to reach the ball.
Intangibles: Good football work ethic and intelligence. Possesses strong character and humble attitude, called "coach's dream" by Nebraska head coach Bo Pelini. "
This post was edited on 1/28/12 at 10:14 am
Posted on 1/28/12 at 10:26 am to Breesus
Lavonte David
SR BOWL WEIGH IN NUMBERS
6-4 225
HANDS 8.5
ARMS 31.125
WINGSPAN 76.75
Impression to me is a lot like Casillas in size and speed. (Still have hope for him but he hasn't been able to stay on the field enough so far.) Seems more likely than not to be available at #59 this early. Good possibility but not any great value play.
SR BOWL WEIGH IN NUMBERS
6-4 225
HANDS 8.5
ARMS 31.125
WINGSPAN 76.75
Impression to me is a lot like Casillas in size and speed. (Still have hope for him but he hasn't been able to stay on the field enough so far.) Seems more likely than not to be available at #59 this early. Good possibility but not any great value play.
This post was edited on 1/28/12 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 1/28/12 at 10:28 am to blueslover
more Lavonte David
There are few weakside 4-3 linebacker prospects who find themselves pushing for first-round consideration, but with the right fit, David would make an excellent pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.
He's won numerous awards in his career, ranging from first and second-team All American and even the Huskers' team defensive MVP last year. David's ability to seal the edge and excel in man-to-man coverage make him an exciting linebacker in college football. Most prospects really do well playing downhill and getting after the quarterback or can dominate when it comes to sheer athleticism, but David is already a solid contributor who can come in with little preparation and potentially start right away.
David doesn't show a lot of flash as a pass rusher at this time. Due to his average height and weight, he struggles disengaging from offensive linemen or having the top-end speed to break the corner on a blitz. What he can do is use his fluid hips in open space to keep an eye on tight ends over the middle and running backs in the flat. He's a sound tackler who rarely overplays and does well to play within his assignment.
Due to his good, but not great athleticism, some teams may opt to take the player who could potentially develop better all-around skills which will ultimately hurt his draft value slightly. David will likely be drafted in the back half of the second round in the 2012 NFL Draft.
Oct-31-2011
---------------------
Coverage/Zone Defense Skills
David’s athleticism and overall awareness serves him well in coverage. He has enough speed and fluid enough hips to cover running backs coming out of the backfield and tight ends down the seam. In zone, he displays good footwork and balance when breaking on the football and routinely gets a hand on the football to break up the pass although he doesn’t come away with as many interceptions as you would expect.
Instincts/Recognition
If I could describe David’s game with one word, it would be instinctive. The guy just always seems to be around the ball and rarely will you see him away from the ball in the run game. He diagnoses the information quickly and uses his athleticism to get to the ball carrier. He racks up a very high number of tackles and pass break ups.
Pass Rush
This is an area he can improve in. As a junior he did rack up six sacks from his linebacker spot but most of them were on blitzes when he wasn’t picked up by the offensive line. One he engages with a blocker, he has little pass rush moves to speak of and prefers to try and use a bull rush but his lack of size and strength often makes it a futile effort.
Pursuit/Lateral Movement and Agility
David is fast in pursuit but doesn’t get out of control and over run plays to the sidelines. He takes the proper angles to the ball carriers and does a good job of sifting his way through traffic. He changes directions quickly and stays under control because of his good balance.
Quickness/ Explosion
Displays above average explosion after diagnosing the play and closes in on the ball carrier quickly. I don’t think he has elite speed but he has more than enough to track down runners in the open field.
Strength/Ability to Shed Blocks
He definitely isn’t afraid to take on big offensive lineman in the run game and shows some good pop and a nice punch. If he can use that violence, he can disengage but when he gots locked up he can get pushed back because he just doesn’t have the strength and size to anchor and hold his own at the point.
Versatility
David doesn’t have the type of scheme versatility you would like. He doesn’t have the pass rush skills you would look for in a 3-4 OLB, nor the size you want from an inside or SAM ‘backer. He will probably be best suited in a cover 2 scheme.
Final Word
LaVonte David transferred to Nebraska after playing JUCO for two years so he doesn’t have a lot of big time college football experience. However, in that short amount of time he has been able to make a name for himself. In his first year playing in the Big 12, he racked up over 150 tackles, 10 pass break ups, and 6 sacks. He is very instinctive and a tackling machine but his lack of size and scheme versatility may hurt him come draft day and he may not be drafted as high as most initially thought.
11/09/11
There are few weakside 4-3 linebacker prospects who find themselves pushing for first-round consideration, but with the right fit, David would make an excellent pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.
He's won numerous awards in his career, ranging from first and second-team All American and even the Huskers' team defensive MVP last year. David's ability to seal the edge and excel in man-to-man coverage make him an exciting linebacker in college football. Most prospects really do well playing downhill and getting after the quarterback or can dominate when it comes to sheer athleticism, but David is already a solid contributor who can come in with little preparation and potentially start right away.
David doesn't show a lot of flash as a pass rusher at this time. Due to his average height and weight, he struggles disengaging from offensive linemen or having the top-end speed to break the corner on a blitz. What he can do is use his fluid hips in open space to keep an eye on tight ends over the middle and running backs in the flat. He's a sound tackler who rarely overplays and does well to play within his assignment.
Due to his good, but not great athleticism, some teams may opt to take the player who could potentially develop better all-around skills which will ultimately hurt his draft value slightly. David will likely be drafted in the back half of the second round in the 2012 NFL Draft.
Oct-31-2011
---------------------
Coverage/Zone Defense Skills
David’s athleticism and overall awareness serves him well in coverage. He has enough speed and fluid enough hips to cover running backs coming out of the backfield and tight ends down the seam. In zone, he displays good footwork and balance when breaking on the football and routinely gets a hand on the football to break up the pass although he doesn’t come away with as many interceptions as you would expect.
Instincts/Recognition
If I could describe David’s game with one word, it would be instinctive. The guy just always seems to be around the ball and rarely will you see him away from the ball in the run game. He diagnoses the information quickly and uses his athleticism to get to the ball carrier. He racks up a very high number of tackles and pass break ups.
Pass Rush
This is an area he can improve in. As a junior he did rack up six sacks from his linebacker spot but most of them were on blitzes when he wasn’t picked up by the offensive line. One he engages with a blocker, he has little pass rush moves to speak of and prefers to try and use a bull rush but his lack of size and strength often makes it a futile effort.
Pursuit/Lateral Movement and Agility
David is fast in pursuit but doesn’t get out of control and over run plays to the sidelines. He takes the proper angles to the ball carriers and does a good job of sifting his way through traffic. He changes directions quickly and stays under control because of his good balance.
Quickness/ Explosion
Displays above average explosion after diagnosing the play and closes in on the ball carrier quickly. I don’t think he has elite speed but he has more than enough to track down runners in the open field.
Strength/Ability to Shed Blocks
He definitely isn’t afraid to take on big offensive lineman in the run game and shows some good pop and a nice punch. If he can use that violence, he can disengage but when he gots locked up he can get pushed back because he just doesn’t have the strength and size to anchor and hold his own at the point.
Versatility
David doesn’t have the type of scheme versatility you would like. He doesn’t have the pass rush skills you would look for in a 3-4 OLB, nor the size you want from an inside or SAM ‘backer. He will probably be best suited in a cover 2 scheme.
Final Word
LaVonte David transferred to Nebraska after playing JUCO for two years so he doesn’t have a lot of big time college football experience. However, in that short amount of time he has been able to make a name for himself. In his first year playing in the Big 12, he racked up over 150 tackles, 10 pass break ups, and 6 sacks. He is very instinctive and a tackling machine but his lack of size and scheme versatility may hurt him come draft day and he may not be drafted as high as most initially thought.
11/09/11
This post was edited on 1/28/12 at 10:30 am
Posted on 1/28/12 at 10:29 am to blueslover
Lavonte David...
Pros
When you’re talking about Lavonte David you’re talking about three major factors that makes him successful: his speed, his awarness (instincts), and his leadership…excels in coverage because of his his speed and awarness…makes a ton of plays on the football in pass coverage….relentless pursuit…added 15 pounds of weight form his listed size in 2010 to 2011…very productive…not afraid to take on blockers, but better getting around them
Cons
undersized…doesn’t do a great job of disengaging from blocks because he’s not functionally strong (NFL strength) and doesn’t have really long arms (because he’s shorter than ideal)…is not an elite pass rusher….kind of schematically limited, he fits best for a team that runs a lot of nickel (think the Giants) or a team that is going to run a lot of Tampa 2 coverage…
Player Comparison: Michael Boley New York Giants/Pat Angerer Colts
I think he develop into the kind of player Michael Boley is today because has that kind of speed and intelligence, and he can develop into the kind of blitzer Boley, but he is but is best suited for a 43. But coming out of college he’s a lot like Angerer, he’s undersized, instinctive, willing to take on blockers, isn’t much of a blitzer, pretty good but not elite speed. Remember Angerer was drafted in the second round and has played pretty well for the Colts. David is a taller (less bulky), but also a little better athlete.
Thoughts
There is a lot to like about Lavonte David. He’s always around the football, he’s a leader on the Cornhuskers defense, he’s very productive and he has good speed. Even if he can never figure out how to take on and shed blocks at the N.F.L. level he’s going to be really good in pass coverage because of his speed, instincts, and fluid hips. A lot of people thought that Angerer might go in the fourth or fifth round and I think most think David will go in the second round, but I see his value somewhere near where Angerer was drafted. Late 2nd and early third, but to the right system, I don’t think he fits all systems. Good player, though.
---------------------
A shorter, athletic-looking linebacker with a muscular lower half/base. Is slightly undersized, but plays with a burst and has some explosive qualities to his game. Reads and reacts quickly to the inside run game. Does a nice job initially locating the football, generates a burst when asked to close and takes consistent angles in pursuit. Lacks elite straight-line speed/closing range, but is still a plus in that area and can make plays consistently off his frame. Does a nice job avoiding blocks inside, is light footed, feels traffic around him and displays that 6th sense to slip a block and put himself in position to tackle the ball carrier. Reads the interior of the O-line well, consistently gets early jumps on the football and takes proper gaps inside. Is a solid wrap-up guy in pursuit. Has a snap into contact, explodes through the hips and is more physical on contact than his frame would suggest. Has a strong punch as well when asked to take on blocks at the point. Does a nice job staying violent and will shed. Takes on pulling guards with good pop and leverage, however, just doesn’t have the lead in the pants needed to consistently anchor. Seems a bit short armed as well, when he gets high in space as a tackler, struggles to get into the frame and can see a stiff arm causing him to fall off his target.
Displays impressive footwork and balance in coverage. Is fluid in the hips, coordinated with his footwork and has the ability to cleanly redirect, maintain balance and close on the throw. Looks natural when asked to turn and run as well, keeps his base down, snaps his head around and quickly and locates the football. Lacks ideal size and can be a target of being boxed out once he gives up a step. However, can turn and run with the tight end down the seam and gets good depth in his drop. Displays a natural feel recognizing routes in coverage and seems to always be around the football. More than held his own in man vs. some of the Big 12’s best pass catchers and should be able to do the same in the NFL.
Impression: He’s undersized, but is instinctive. Might be limited to more of a cover two type scheme only, but looks like a starting caliber weak side guy to me early in his NFL career.
06/15/11
Pros
When you’re talking about Lavonte David you’re talking about three major factors that makes him successful: his speed, his awarness (instincts), and his leadership…excels in coverage because of his his speed and awarness…makes a ton of plays on the football in pass coverage….relentless pursuit…added 15 pounds of weight form his listed size in 2010 to 2011…very productive…not afraid to take on blockers, but better getting around them
Cons
undersized…doesn’t do a great job of disengaging from blocks because he’s not functionally strong (NFL strength) and doesn’t have really long arms (because he’s shorter than ideal)…is not an elite pass rusher….kind of schematically limited, he fits best for a team that runs a lot of nickel (think the Giants) or a team that is going to run a lot of Tampa 2 coverage…
Player Comparison: Michael Boley New York Giants/Pat Angerer Colts
I think he develop into the kind of player Michael Boley is today because has that kind of speed and intelligence, and he can develop into the kind of blitzer Boley, but he is but is best suited for a 43. But coming out of college he’s a lot like Angerer, he’s undersized, instinctive, willing to take on blockers, isn’t much of a blitzer, pretty good but not elite speed. Remember Angerer was drafted in the second round and has played pretty well for the Colts. David is a taller (less bulky), but also a little better athlete.
Thoughts
There is a lot to like about Lavonte David. He’s always around the football, he’s a leader on the Cornhuskers defense, he’s very productive and he has good speed. Even if he can never figure out how to take on and shed blocks at the N.F.L. level he’s going to be really good in pass coverage because of his speed, instincts, and fluid hips. A lot of people thought that Angerer might go in the fourth or fifth round and I think most think David will go in the second round, but I see his value somewhere near where Angerer was drafted. Late 2nd and early third, but to the right system, I don’t think he fits all systems. Good player, though.
---------------------
A shorter, athletic-looking linebacker with a muscular lower half/base. Is slightly undersized, but plays with a burst and has some explosive qualities to his game. Reads and reacts quickly to the inside run game. Does a nice job initially locating the football, generates a burst when asked to close and takes consistent angles in pursuit. Lacks elite straight-line speed/closing range, but is still a plus in that area and can make plays consistently off his frame. Does a nice job avoiding blocks inside, is light footed, feels traffic around him and displays that 6th sense to slip a block and put himself in position to tackle the ball carrier. Reads the interior of the O-line well, consistently gets early jumps on the football and takes proper gaps inside. Is a solid wrap-up guy in pursuit. Has a snap into contact, explodes through the hips and is more physical on contact than his frame would suggest. Has a strong punch as well when asked to take on blocks at the point. Does a nice job staying violent and will shed. Takes on pulling guards with good pop and leverage, however, just doesn’t have the lead in the pants needed to consistently anchor. Seems a bit short armed as well, when he gets high in space as a tackler, struggles to get into the frame and can see a stiff arm causing him to fall off his target.
Displays impressive footwork and balance in coverage. Is fluid in the hips, coordinated with his footwork and has the ability to cleanly redirect, maintain balance and close on the throw. Looks natural when asked to turn and run as well, keeps his base down, snaps his head around and quickly and locates the football. Lacks ideal size and can be a target of being boxed out once he gives up a step. However, can turn and run with the tight end down the seam and gets good depth in his drop. Displays a natural feel recognizing routes in coverage and seems to always be around the football. More than held his own in man vs. some of the Big 12’s best pass catchers and should be able to do the same in the NFL.
Impression: He’s undersized, but is instinctive. Might be limited to more of a cover two type scheme only, but looks like a starting caliber weak side guy to me early in his NFL career.
06/15/11
This post was edited on 1/28/12 at 10:31 am
Posted on 1/28/12 at 10:42 am to blueslover
You posted about the position of SS changing. The league is getting faster and much more passing oriented. I think defenses in general need to get faster and better in coverage. Especially with positions that werent always thought of as important in these 2 areas. The guys a sure tackler even if he doesnt hit super hard and hes great in coverage. I'd be willing to give him a shot.
Posted on 1/28/12 at 11:00 am to Breesus
With the Saints strong BPA the trick is getting guys you like at spots you grade them at good value. With the first two here, Curry & David, Curry looks a lot more like a must pick value. It's about the expected range for David and even where ya might question if you could get him next time around in the 3rd Rd.
Kinda like stock watching and picking... looking for the best buy value that has the largest potential return on investment.
Kinda like stock watching and picking... looking for the best buy value that has the largest potential return on investment.
Posted on 1/28/12 at 11:13 am to blueslover
Yeah good point. If we picked up Curry in 2 and David fell to 3 I'd be jacked up.
Posted on 1/28/12 at 11:32 am to blueslover
next up Bobby Wagner LB Utah State
SR BOWL WEIGH IN NUMBERS
6-2 241
hands 9 7/8
arms 30 5/8
wingspan 79 1/8
Really excellent tackler who is constantly improving. Over 114 tackles each of the last three seasons including more than 130 each of the last two. Also has shown some ability in coverage, picking off four passes in his college career at Utah State. Tons of experience and a great leader on the defensive side of the ball. Solid size for an inside linebacker, but not great height. Pretty solid quickness and could be effective blitzing off the edge or up the middle. Can get engulfed by blockers if they get to the second level quickly. At his best when he is attacking the play. Very instinctive and is always around the ball. 10.5 tackles for loss and four sacks this season indicate to me that he is very effective blitzing. Fundamentally sound, and is not often out of place. This is a kid coming from a school in Utah State who doesn’t play a ton of great competition, but he has a chance to be a very good pro if he continues to play at this kind of intensity. He has solid measurables and athletic ability, and if he can continue to be a leader I think he has a chance to be a starting inside linebacker in the NFL.
12/17/2011
------------------
He possesses a shorter frame with decent length for his size and above-average natural athletic ability to his game. Wagner exhibits solid instincts inside vs. the run game. Does a good job finding the football inside and when he does locate it he breaks down well and will wrap with his longer arms, running his legs through contact. He possesses good range in pursuit, is an above-average athlete with a good burst and natrual straight-line speed toward the perimeter. Showcases solid base strength when taking on blocks inside. Can stack and shed on contact and has some natrual power when fighting off blocks. At times will run himself out of plays, but when he locates the football can extend his arms, shed and uses his "plus" first step to shed and wrap on the ball carrier off his frame. Nevertheless, doesn't do a great job keeping himself clean when picking his way through traffic and has a tendency to get picked off too easily at times because of his inconsistent awareness.
He looks comfortable in the pass game. He stays balanced in his drop, keeps his eyes in the backfield and is routinely flowing toward the action. However, doesn't feel routes developing around him well and too often is a bit slow to react and close on the throw. He feels the screen game better though and showcases a good initial burst/range when closing from the backside. Is used a lot as a rush guy off the edge in obvious passing down situations. He exhibits slightly above average get off speed, extends his arms into contact and can create a pop while keeping his pad level down. Doesn't look overly natrual when trying to change directions and counter off his speed rush, but has a good motor and closes well.
Impression: A good athlete with some balance and coordination in all areas of his game. He's a 'plus" tackler who can shed on contact and make plays as a blitzer.
------------------
The now three-time All-WAC ‘backer reached an entirely new level of production, notching 140 tackles, 4 sacks, and 10.5 tackles for loss. More importantly, he exhibited skills that will make him a quality starter at the next level.
Rather than a prospect who thrives by beating down lesser teams, Wagner has done some of his best work against high quality competition. Though only listed at 6’1?, 232 lbs., Wagner possesses very long arms, which allow him to keep blockers at bay. As a result, BYU’s big offensive linemen failed to faze him.
The same was true in the Auburn game, in which he exhibited another valuable commodity, pass rush ability. Most linebackers merely are blitzers: they get to the quarterback when given unobstructed access to the quarterback. Wagner, on the other hand, has flashed the potential to be a true pass rusher, a defender who uses his length and quick hands to win one-on-one matchups with offensive tackles.
The Aggies ultimately failed to secured upset victories in both matchups, but Wagner may be able to notch a surprise win on draft day. With his impressive skill set, it’s possible that he could come off the board before much more heralded prospects. In fact, the folks at NFL Draft Scout have him rated as their 50th overall prospect, ahead of a very big name in Vontaze Burfict.
12/15/2011
Video
Wagner1
Wagner2
Wagner3
Sounds like a safer all around LB selection. Maybe not as flashy as others but maybe more solid in his whole game. One to watch how his stock moves up or down.
Looks like he was a big part of U St. almost upsetting Auburn (videos). Anyone see that game?
--------------------
Markelle Martin
-not gonna do Martin the safety today. Jenkins & Harper are set (no matter whatcha think about them). To go safety I think it would take a greater must pick value. He might be the 2nd to 4th best safety in this class. That still could be as a 3rd Rd selection though.
SR BOWL WEIGH IN NUMBERS
6-2 241
hands 9 7/8
arms 30 5/8
wingspan 79 1/8
Really excellent tackler who is constantly improving. Over 114 tackles each of the last three seasons including more than 130 each of the last two. Also has shown some ability in coverage, picking off four passes in his college career at Utah State. Tons of experience and a great leader on the defensive side of the ball. Solid size for an inside linebacker, but not great height. Pretty solid quickness and could be effective blitzing off the edge or up the middle. Can get engulfed by blockers if they get to the second level quickly. At his best when he is attacking the play. Very instinctive and is always around the ball. 10.5 tackles for loss and four sacks this season indicate to me that he is very effective blitzing. Fundamentally sound, and is not often out of place. This is a kid coming from a school in Utah State who doesn’t play a ton of great competition, but he has a chance to be a very good pro if he continues to play at this kind of intensity. He has solid measurables and athletic ability, and if he can continue to be a leader I think he has a chance to be a starting inside linebacker in the NFL.
12/17/2011
------------------
He possesses a shorter frame with decent length for his size and above-average natural athletic ability to his game. Wagner exhibits solid instincts inside vs. the run game. Does a good job finding the football inside and when he does locate it he breaks down well and will wrap with his longer arms, running his legs through contact. He possesses good range in pursuit, is an above-average athlete with a good burst and natrual straight-line speed toward the perimeter. Showcases solid base strength when taking on blocks inside. Can stack and shed on contact and has some natrual power when fighting off blocks. At times will run himself out of plays, but when he locates the football can extend his arms, shed and uses his "plus" first step to shed and wrap on the ball carrier off his frame. Nevertheless, doesn't do a great job keeping himself clean when picking his way through traffic and has a tendency to get picked off too easily at times because of his inconsistent awareness.
He looks comfortable in the pass game. He stays balanced in his drop, keeps his eyes in the backfield and is routinely flowing toward the action. However, doesn't feel routes developing around him well and too often is a bit slow to react and close on the throw. He feels the screen game better though and showcases a good initial burst/range when closing from the backside. Is used a lot as a rush guy off the edge in obvious passing down situations. He exhibits slightly above average get off speed, extends his arms into contact and can create a pop while keeping his pad level down. Doesn't look overly natrual when trying to change directions and counter off his speed rush, but has a good motor and closes well.
Impression: A good athlete with some balance and coordination in all areas of his game. He's a 'plus" tackler who can shed on contact and make plays as a blitzer.
------------------
The now three-time All-WAC ‘backer reached an entirely new level of production, notching 140 tackles, 4 sacks, and 10.5 tackles for loss. More importantly, he exhibited skills that will make him a quality starter at the next level.
Rather than a prospect who thrives by beating down lesser teams, Wagner has done some of his best work against high quality competition. Though only listed at 6’1?, 232 lbs., Wagner possesses very long arms, which allow him to keep blockers at bay. As a result, BYU’s big offensive linemen failed to faze him.
The same was true in the Auburn game, in which he exhibited another valuable commodity, pass rush ability. Most linebackers merely are blitzers: they get to the quarterback when given unobstructed access to the quarterback. Wagner, on the other hand, has flashed the potential to be a true pass rusher, a defender who uses his length and quick hands to win one-on-one matchups with offensive tackles.
The Aggies ultimately failed to secured upset victories in both matchups, but Wagner may be able to notch a surprise win on draft day. With his impressive skill set, it’s possible that he could come off the board before much more heralded prospects. In fact, the folks at NFL Draft Scout have him rated as their 50th overall prospect, ahead of a very big name in Vontaze Burfict.
12/15/2011
Video
Wagner1
Wagner2
Wagner3
Sounds like a safer all around LB selection. Maybe not as flashy as others but maybe more solid in his whole game. One to watch how his stock moves up or down.
Looks like he was a big part of U St. almost upsetting Auburn (videos). Anyone see that game?
--------------------
Markelle Martin
-not gonna do Martin the safety today. Jenkins & Harper are set (no matter whatcha think about them). To go safety I think it would take a greater must pick value. He might be the 2nd to 4th best safety in this class. That still could be as a 3rd Rd selection though.
This post was edited on 1/28/12 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 1/28/12 at 11:39 am to blueslover
Love Bobby Wagner. Was able to catch a few games of his and he made plays all over the field in each. I'd love to draft him if he's available.
Posted on 1/28/12 at 12:31 pm to Gugich22
some mocks at what spot I find in this order Curry, Wagner, & David...
PLUS who those mocks have at #59 for Saints
XX denotes didn't make mock
54 XX 36 Sean Spence LB MIA
60 77 69 Brandon Thompson DT CLEM
47 XX 36 Brandon Thompson DT CLEM
Other overall big board ranks (like Brandts used in PT 1), again Curry, Wagner, David...
DraftTek 69 70 67
Great Blue 63 64 XX
Walter 45 47 107
PFW 93 40 229
PFT 91 35 74
you'll see these start to consolidate as time goes on. Curry & David certainly scoring higher than Wagner so far. Watch'em today.
Thought about adding Brandon Thompson DT CLEM since he was a couple of mock picks and in the SR Bowl today. Reviewing more I see him ranked overall at 27, 28, 29, 36, 40, etc. Certainly would be a must pick over Curry or David. Unless something changes though Dropping 30 spots from overall rankings is too unlikely to consider right now.
PLUS who those mocks have at #59 for Saints
XX denotes didn't make mock
54 XX 36 Sean Spence LB MIA
60 77 69 Brandon Thompson DT CLEM
47 XX 36 Brandon Thompson DT CLEM
Other overall big board ranks (like Brandts used in PT 1), again Curry, Wagner, David...
DraftTek 69 70 67
Great Blue 63 64 XX
Walter 45 47 107
PFW 93 40 229
PFT 91 35 74
you'll see these start to consolidate as time goes on. Curry & David certainly scoring higher than Wagner so far. Watch'em today.
Thought about adding Brandon Thompson DT CLEM since he was a couple of mock picks and in the SR Bowl today. Reviewing more I see him ranked overall at 27, 28, 29, 36, 40, etc. Certainly would be a must pick over Curry or David. Unless something changes though Dropping 30 spots from overall rankings is too unlikely to consider right now.
This post was edited on 1/28/12 at 1:27 pm
Posted on 1/28/12 at 12:41 pm to blueslover
So those Mocks are all over the place. I generally don't even like to think about mock drafts until after the pro-days.
So the averages(XX=100) on those mocks are(highest and lowest thrown out for second number):
Curry: 65.25 (64)
Wagner: 66.25 (66.3)
David: 89.75 (75.5)
So the averages(XX=100) on those mocks are(highest and lowest thrown out for second number):
Curry: 65.25 (64)
Wagner: 66.25 (66.3)
David: 89.75 (75.5)
Posted on 1/28/12 at 12:55 pm to saintsfan92612
the earlier the wider variance in rankings. Many sites don't even have anything beyond the 1st Rd yet. I kinda go a lot from knowing the sites historically and what they offer.
RANKING MOCKS
Last year-
1 Rick Gosselin - Dallas Morning News 53 12 29
2 Jason Boris - Times News 51 11 29
3 Al Fronczak - East Coast Sports News 47 10 27
4 Rob Rang - NFL Draft Scout 47 9 29
5 Dan Kadar - Mocking The Draft 46 9 28
Doug Martz - Draft Board Guru 46 9 28
Scott Wright - Draft Countdown 46 9 28
8 Jesse Bartolis - NFLMocks.com 44 8 28
Robby Esch - The Huddle Report 44 8 28
10 Clint Clearwater - The Football Expert 43 8 27
Hunter Ansley - Draft Zoo 43 8 27
Mike Mayock - NFL Network 43 8 27
Last 5 Years-
1 Rick Gosselin - Dallas Morning News 46.80 53 45 43 40 53
2 Jason Boris - Times News 44.60 51 44 44 37 47
3 Mel Kiper jr - ESPN 43.20 40 48 43 37 48
4 Al Fronczak - East Coast Sports News 43.00 47 37 40 44 47
5 Robby Esch - The Huddle Report 42.60 44 45 43 45 36
6 Scott Wright - Draft Countdown 41.60 46 39 43 39 41
7 Michael Abromowitz - The Football Expert 41.40 38 41 48 43 37
8 Ryan McCrystal - Draft Ace 40.80 38 39 43 38 46
9 Dan Kadar - Mocking The Draft 40.20 46 49 38 29 39
10 Jeff Mullen - NFL Draft Line 39.80 39 35 41 42 42
Just a starting point. The Nicks/Colston situations will be huge to determine need weight. SR Bowl, Combine, and Pro Days will consolidate the rank ranges. See the Martez Wilson comment above.
Lagniappe:
Draft Value In Action For The Saints
2010- Matt Tennant was widely scored as a 2nd to upper 3rd Rd prospect. The Saints took Graham in the 3rd & Al Woods in the 4th. They had no 5th Rd pick. Tennant looks like a screaming value not taken heading to the back of the 5th Rd. They trade the 2011 4th Rd to get back in and take Tennant with the 27th pick in the 5th Rd.
RANKING MOCKS
Last year-
1 Rick Gosselin - Dallas Morning News 53 12 29
2 Jason Boris - Times News 51 11 29
3 Al Fronczak - East Coast Sports News 47 10 27
4 Rob Rang - NFL Draft Scout 47 9 29
5 Dan Kadar - Mocking The Draft 46 9 28
Doug Martz - Draft Board Guru 46 9 28
Scott Wright - Draft Countdown 46 9 28
8 Jesse Bartolis - NFLMocks.com 44 8 28
Robby Esch - The Huddle Report 44 8 28
10 Clint Clearwater - The Football Expert 43 8 27
Hunter Ansley - Draft Zoo 43 8 27
Mike Mayock - NFL Network 43 8 27
Last 5 Years-
1 Rick Gosselin - Dallas Morning News 46.80 53 45 43 40 53
2 Jason Boris - Times News 44.60 51 44 44 37 47
3 Mel Kiper jr - ESPN 43.20 40 48 43 37 48
4 Al Fronczak - East Coast Sports News 43.00 47 37 40 44 47
5 Robby Esch - The Huddle Report 42.60 44 45 43 45 36
6 Scott Wright - Draft Countdown 41.60 46 39 43 39 41
7 Michael Abromowitz - The Football Expert 41.40 38 41 48 43 37
8 Ryan McCrystal - Draft Ace 40.80 38 39 43 38 46
9 Dan Kadar - Mocking The Draft 40.20 46 49 38 29 39
10 Jeff Mullen - NFL Draft Line 39.80 39 35 41 42 42
Just a starting point. The Nicks/Colston situations will be huge to determine need weight. SR Bowl, Combine, and Pro Days will consolidate the rank ranges. See the Martez Wilson comment above.
Lagniappe:
Draft Value In Action For The Saints
2010- Matt Tennant was widely scored as a 2nd to upper 3rd Rd prospect. The Saints took Graham in the 3rd & Al Woods in the 4th. They had no 5th Rd pick. Tennant looks like a screaming value not taken heading to the back of the 5th Rd. They trade the 2011 4th Rd to get back in and take Tennant with the 27th pick in the 5th Rd.
This post was edited on 1/28/12 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 1/28/12 at 1:02 pm to blueslover
quote:
2010- Matt Tennant was widely scored as a 2nd to upper 3rd Rd prospect. The Saints took Graham in the 3rd & Al Woods in the 4th. They had no 5th Rd pick. Tennant looks like a screaming value not taken heading to the back of the 5th Rd. They trade the 2011 4th Rd to get back in and take Tennant with the 27th pick in the 5th Rd.
and now we see that there was a reason that he fell to the 5th round...
That 2010 draft was so up and down. P-Rob is looking better and better. He might be even better when he doesn't line up 10 yards off his guy in the GW system. Charles Brown has been doing a great revolving door impersonation, but I think he still has some potential. Graham is a beast. Woods was a terrible terrible pick. Tennant hasn't really shown anything yet. Canfield has to be close to setting a record for transactions in a career.
Posted on 1/28/12 at 1:16 pm to saintsfan92612
quote:
Tennant hasn't really shown anything yet.
The key is we dunno how the staff grades him from practice. dlP obviously outplayed him. but until dlP replaced Kreutz we could say we had not seen anything from either.
Canfield, Tanner, etc- Meh, better than working for a living. $90K a yr on the PS. Get a little face time and maybe get sucked up to a 53man roster like Joique Bell. 2012 minimum pay for a rookie is $390k 1yr exp $465K. Not bad for just getting hit in practice. Remember Skyler Green? 53man pay to PS to CFL now in Arena League. High end there is $50-100K. If he was halfway smart he could have a few hundred thousand put away by 28 to start life in the real world.
Posted on 1/28/12 at 1:18 pm to saintsfan92612
I'm not giving up on Tennant yet. Center is a cerebral position, and our offense is complicated to say the least. Although DLP has bounced around from team to team, I think he still had 2 years of experience on Tennant.
Charles Brown will be interesting. He played well up to the Rams game. Seems our whole o-line was getting owned that game though. From what I heard, Brown tried to play through his injury for a while in that game. I still have hope he can develop into a solid left tackle. Bushrod only signed a two year contract last year right?
Charles Brown will be interesting. He played well up to the Rams game. Seems our whole o-line was getting owned that game though. From what I heard, Brown tried to play through his injury for a while in that game. I still have hope he can develop into a solid left tackle. Bushrod only signed a two year contract last year right?
Posted on 1/28/12 at 1:25 pm to Patrick O Rly
Yup on Bushmaster, the development of Brown is huge IMO. Whether you keep him or not- just to have the value for trading or roster flexibility. Thank god dlP proved ready. They went after Kreutz when Goodwin left cuz they didn't think dlP or Tennant were ready for primetime. If they would have known how well dlP would play (compared to a potential HOFer that was washed up) they could have used the Kreutz money elsewhere and maybe have better performance early in the season.
Posted on 1/28/12 at 1:30 pm to blueslover
quote:
Bruce Irvin, DE, West Virginia
He seems very intriguing to me.
After JUCO, he showed up to WVU and set it on fire with 14 sacks. This after getting 16 sacks in JUCO. He was looking like a sure-fire 1st rounder at that point, but came back for his SR year. This past year wasn't as productive, but still came away with 8.5 sacks and 15 TFL.
Anyone else have some more info on him and why his hype seems to be down?
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