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Reality Check: LSU has never been an elite SEC program
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:46 pm
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:46 pm
I think a LOT of the angst on the rant is from people who think LSU should be an elite SEC program. But have we ever been an elite SEC program? No.
We've been close, but we've never really gotten there or stayed there long enough to be considered an elite program.
So just who are the elite SEC programs? Based on data (see below) and just common sense, the obvious answer is Florida and Bama.
Florida is 7-3 in the SECCG.
Bama is 3-4 in the SECCG.
Tennessee is 2-3 in the SECG.
LSU is 3-1 in the SECG.
Georgia is 2-1 in the SECG.
Auburn is 1-2 in the SECG.
Arky is 0-3 in the SECG.
Miss State is 0-1 in the SECG.
UK, SC, Vandy & Ole Miss have never been to SECG.
After some lean years, Florida and Bama reestablished their dominance the last four years. Bama has been an elite program for as long as anyone can remember (like the Yankees). Florida became an elite team under Spurrier and despite setbacks under Zook, Meyer reestablished them as an elite team. It's no accident that Florida and Bama met in 2008 and 2009 for the SECCG because they are the SEC's elite teams -- they also played each other in 4 of the first 5 SECCGs.
LSU, Georgia and Auburn are highly competitive, but NOT elite. Never have been. Could one day become elite but thus far it hasn't happened. LSU has two crystal footballs despite not being elite, but don't think the 2004 Auburn team couldn't have won a crystal football (they were unlucky and went undefeated during a year with two other unbeatens) or that this year's Auburn team won't be playing for a crystal football. Tennessee belongs in this group as well, but they've fallen since the departure of Fulmer and have yet to regain their footing. Arkansas may take their place.
The problem many LSU fans have is that they think we should be an elite SEC team but can't accept that even under Nicky Saban we never have been an elite team. We've been good, even great, but never elite. I don't know that we ever will be.
We've been close, but we've never really gotten there or stayed there long enough to be considered an elite program.
So just who are the elite SEC programs? Based on data (see below) and just common sense, the obvious answer is Florida and Bama.
Florida is 7-3 in the SECCG.
Bama is 3-4 in the SECCG.
Tennessee is 2-3 in the SECG.
LSU is 3-1 in the SECG.
Georgia is 2-1 in the SECG.
Auburn is 1-2 in the SECG.
Arky is 0-3 in the SECG.
Miss State is 0-1 in the SECG.
UK, SC, Vandy & Ole Miss have never been to SECG.
After some lean years, Florida and Bama reestablished their dominance the last four years. Bama has been an elite program for as long as anyone can remember (like the Yankees). Florida became an elite team under Spurrier and despite setbacks under Zook, Meyer reestablished them as an elite team. It's no accident that Florida and Bama met in 2008 and 2009 for the SECCG because they are the SEC's elite teams -- they also played each other in 4 of the first 5 SECCGs.
LSU, Georgia and Auburn are highly competitive, but NOT elite. Never have been. Could one day become elite but thus far it hasn't happened. LSU has two crystal footballs despite not being elite, but don't think the 2004 Auburn team couldn't have won a crystal football (they were unlucky and went undefeated during a year with two other unbeatens) or that this year's Auburn team won't be playing for a crystal football. Tennessee belongs in this group as well, but they've fallen since the departure of Fulmer and have yet to regain their footing. Arkansas may take their place.
The problem many LSU fans have is that they think we should be an elite SEC team but can't accept that even under Nicky Saban we never have been an elite team. We've been good, even great, but never elite. I don't know that we ever will be.
This post was edited on 10/25/10 at 6:25 pm
48
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:48 pm to pdxlsufan
We are about as elite as you can get in the SEC since 2001....
Nobody wants to see that decline back to mediocrity.
So.........
Nobody wants to see that decline back to mediocrity.
So.........
This post was edited on 10/25/10 at 5:53 pm
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:49 pm to pdxlsufan
there's no reason we shouldn't be. we have better everything than at any time in our history + a fertile recruiting base basically all to ourselves.
there's a reason LSU was constantly referred to as a sleeping giant program.
i think it's more accurate to say we've underperformed historically due to not being able to get out of our own way, either due to political interference, lack of resources applied, or just bad coaching decisions.
there's a reason LSU was constantly referred to as a sleeping giant program.
i think it's more accurate to say we've underperformed historically due to not being able to get out of our own way, either due to political interference, lack of resources applied, or just bad coaching decisions.
This post was edited on 10/25/10 at 5:52 pm
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:51 pm to pdxlsufan
It looks like you've defined "elite" as every team clearly above LSU, historically. You could easily include LSU in "elite" status using the very information you provided. It looks like LSU has the third-most success since the inception of the SECCG. But you just drew the line after two teams.
I guess we aren't in the top two, thanks for reminding.
I guess we aren't in the top two, thanks for reminding.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:51 pm to oilfieldtiger
Just when I thought people couldn't become any dumber, the OP gets an idea.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:52 pm to pdxlsufan
2 national championships, 4 BCS bowl total, 4 SEC west titles, 10 bowl berths, 4 top 5 finishes in 10 years and we arent elite?
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:53 pm to Circle the Wagons
We have been elite this decade. 2 National titles 3 SEC titles and second only to Florida in wins.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:55 pm to NorfolkTiger
Dummy ALERT!
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:55 pm to pdxlsufan
Do you honestly think that this decade Alabama has been elite over LSU?
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:55 pm to Circle the Wagons
quote:
It looks like you've defined "elite" as every team clearly above LSU, historically. You could easily include LSU in "elite" status using the very information you provided. It looks like LSU has the third-most success since the inception of the SECCG. But you just drew the line after two teams.
No shite, Sherlock.
Since the inception of the SECCG, Florida and Bama have clearly been the best teams in the SEC.
And going forward another 20 years, I won't be surprised if Bama and Florida continue to dominate. Because that's what elite teams do.
You homers keep saying "we should be this" or "we could be that" and while I might agree that we could be, we never have been. We've never stayed at that level for more than a year or two.
The reason LSU and Auburn have such a highly competitive game every year is because LSU and Auburn are almost mirror images of each other. Both of want to be better than Bama, just as much as the Red Sox want to be better than the Yankees. We aren't.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:56 pm to pdxlsufan
Question for you, if going to conference championship game a whole bunch of times and loosing more than winning makes Bama more elite than LSU, doesn't that make Ohio State and Oklahoma make more NCAA elite than Florida and Bama?
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:58 pm to pdxlsufan
quote:
No shite, Sherlock.
Since the inception of the SECCG, Florida and Bama have clearly been the best teams in the SEC.
And going forward another 20 years, I won't be surprised if Bama and Florida continue to dominate. Because that's what elite teams do.
You homers keep saying "we should be this" or "we could be that" and while I might agree that we could be, we never have been. We've never stayed at that level for more than a year or two.
The reason LSU and Auburn have such a highly competitive game every year is because LSU and Auburn are almost mirror images of each other. Both of want to be better than Bama, just as much as the Red Sox want to be better than the Yankees. We aren't.
Just so much failed involved with this post.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:58 pm to lsusteve1
quote:I beg to differ. I totally agree w'lsusteve1's response...
Reality Check: LSU has never been an elite SEC team
quote:To temper that, the decline nobody wants to see started being clear in 2008, 2009, and then for all the sloppy, ugly 7 wins of 2010 (so far) it seemed to continue along the edges. The loss to Auburn is a frustration and a setback. But if LSU wins out, the LSU claim to 21st century SEC Elite status will still hold. If not, we're pretty much back in the middle of the pack - tough, sometimes a spoiler, but an also-ran team standing in the shadow of Tide and Gator giants.
We are about as elite as you can get in the SEC since 2001....
Nobody wants to see that decline back to mediocrity.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:58 pm to pdxlsufan
quote:
The reason LSU and Auburn have such a highly competitive game every year is because LSU and Auburn are almost mirror images of each other. Both of want to be better than Bama, just as much as the Red Sox want to be better than the Yankees. We aren't.
The more you talk...the dumber it gets
How competitive has the Alabama/LSU game been the last 10 years? EVEN w/ Lord Saban there?
LSU is elite as it's ever been since 2001....deal with it
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:59 pm to pdxlsufan
your entitled to your opinion, but i have a want to tell you that i dont agree with your accessment.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:00 pm to Woodreaux
quote:
Question for you, if going to conference championship game a whole bunch of times and loosing more than winning makes Bama more elite than LSU, doesn't that make Ohio State and Oklahoma make more NCAA elite than Florida and Bama?
You know what Oklahoma, Ohio State and Alabama have in common?
A long tradition of winning and winning championships that goes back many decades. And they periodically add to that long list of championships.
If LSU wins another crystal football or two, then maybe we can claim elite status. But I dare say Florida and Bama have a far better claim than we do and I'm sure most of the national media would agree.
This post was edited on 10/25/10 at 6:04 pm
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:02 pm to lsusteve1
quote:
How competitive has the Alabama/LSU game been the last 10 years? EVEN w/ Lord Saban there?
You might want to hold off on that question until after Lord Saban comes to visit in two weeks.
Because if LSU ever wants to be an elite team, beating Bama this year would go a long way towards that. Lord Saban didn't help our cause by getting LSU's arse kicked by Bama 31-0 in 2002.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:02 pm to pdxlsufan
quote:
If LSU win some another crystal football or two, then maybe we can claim elite status. But I dare say Florida and Bama have a far better claim than we do and I'm sure most of the national media would agree.
Pre-Spurrier (who only won 1 NC by the way)....LSU was a better football program.
Bama is in the Top 3 of ALL time.......
I'd take our program and SEC affiliation over a ND, OSU and USC any day of the week....even WITH there history.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:03 pm to pdxlsufan
quote:
You know what Oklahoma, Ohio State and Alabama have in common?
A long tradition of winning and winning championships that goes back many decades. And they periodically add to that long list of championships.
If LSU win some another crystal football or two, then maybe we can claim elite status. But I dare say Florida and Bama have a far better claim than we do and I'm sure most of the national media would agree.
Guess how many NC's Michigan has over the last 50 years. You consider them "elite." get the frick out of here dude you're a troll.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:03 pm to pdxlsufan
quote:
You might want to hold off on that question until after Lord Saban comes to visit in two weeks.
Because if LSU ever wants to be an elite team, beating Bama this year would go a long way towards that. Lord Saban didn't help our cause by getting LSU's arse kicked by Bama 31-0 in 2002.
Soooo...we beat Bama in two weeks and we're elite again.
OK.....I'm done with this thread......
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