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re: Why isn't fuel economy getting better? *Spinoff from Ecoboost thread*
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:03 pm to s14suspense
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:03 pm to s14suspense
In the old days people didn't like diesels. They were loud, smokey, heavy, slow, unreliable, and gas was cheap as frick so fuel mileage didn't matter.
By the time people started to really care a whole lot about fuel mileage (08ish) the EPA had already caught up to diesels and started chopping them down. The price of diesel also got high as giraffe pussy
By the time people started to really care a whole lot about fuel mileage (08ish) the EPA had already caught up to diesels and started chopping them down. The price of diesel also got high as giraffe pussy
1
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:04 pm to Pintail
Hilux didn't meet crash standards. Toyota sold so many of them worldwide, they didn't really need to worry about retrofitting them to the US market when there wasn't any demand for a diesel small truck
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:04 pm to treble hook
The ones with the 5.3 certainly do. Other than MDS and different tuning they are virtually identical.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:06 pm to Pintail
It might have to do with the supply and demand of diesel.
Every thing bought in this counrty is at some point shipped by diesel truck.
Swap half of the pickup driving public to burning diesel and the price of diesel will go up.
Price of diesel goes up, the price of shipping goes up.
Just one theory.
Every thing bought in this counrty is at some point shipped by diesel truck.
Swap half of the pickup driving public to burning diesel and the price of diesel will go up.
Price of diesel goes up, the price of shipping goes up.
Just one theory.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:06 pm to Hammertime
quote:
And old man can drive a RV, and I can see how CAT wanted to get out of those engines.
They got out of the RV business b/c thet didn't want to certify those engines to meet EPA requirements.
I have a C9 in mine. Sonny.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:06 pm to upgrade
quote:
Pretty close.
Well that's my point!
Why aren't they improving to make the engines more efficient? That's 10 years and you're telling me they are putting the same motor in the Silverado's.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:08 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
In the old days people didn't like diesels
Don't forget what GM did to the domestic diesel market in '78-82.
They probably set diesels back 20 years just by themselves.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:08 pm to treble hook
quote:
Why aren't they improving to make the engines more efficient?
They meet the market standard so why invest the asspiles of money into R&D when your current proven system is very competetive on the current market?
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:09 pm to treble hook
quote:
Why aren't they improving to make the engines more efficient? That's 10 years and you're telling me they are putting the same motor in the Silverado's.
Pretty freaking much. Chevy is very lazy.
Might be better off comparing the advancements between the I6 in old Fords to the Ecoboost V6.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:09 pm to treble hook
They use most motors for >15yrs. Only difference nowadays is maybe the intake, more spark, difference programming. Lately, car(not truck) manufacturers have been going to 7 and 8 speed transmissions. Can't do that in a truck.
Cadillac had motors that shut down cylinders in the early 80s. Not new technology.
Cadillac had motors that shut down cylinders in the early 80s. Not new technology.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:10 pm to VetteGuy
Yea no shite.
Without all the emissions scrubbing on diesels, there would be some amazing vehicles on the road today.
When you can run an engine at a 25+:1 compression ration instead of 9:1, we should be doing much better than we are.
ETA: Word on the street is that HCCI engines are not far away. That will be a huge leap in efficiency once it's ironed out.
Without all the emissions scrubbing on diesels, there would be some amazing vehicles on the road today.
When you can run an engine at a 25+:1 compression ration instead of 9:1, we should be doing much better than we are.
ETA: Word on the street is that HCCI engines are not far away. That will be a huge leap in efficiency once it's ironed out.
This post was edited on 3/11/13 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:12 pm to Hammertime
quote:
going to 7 and 8 speed transmissions. Can't do that in a truck.
Doesn't the new dodge have that?
They CAN make an 8 speed tranny stand up to 600 hp but they'd make you pay for it.
They can make the truck lighter by using aluminum, CFRP and high strength steel but they'll make you pay for it.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:16 pm to s14suspense
quote:
rice hike on a diesel motor vs a simple V8 or a high tech V6 is going to be tough to stomach still. Won't make that money back up in fuel savings.
Got that right. The diesel option on my Super Duty was just under $8k
Unless you have heavy loads to tow it doesn't make sense. You will never recover the money on the diesel option in fuel savings. I am averaging 14.8 around town with the super duty. Not to shabby for a 7k+ lb truck.Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:16 pm to Hammertime
quote:
Cadillac had motors that shut down cylinders in the early 80s.
4-6-8
GM had some engineers back in the day, they just executed poorly.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:18 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Without all the emissions scrubbing on diesels, there would be some amazing vehicles on the road today.
If diesel is the way to go as far as fuel efficiency, will it ever be cost effective to buy a diesel? Or will you always be paying $8,000-10,000 more for them. And will diesel always be high as giraffe p*ssy at the pump?
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:18 pm to bayoudude
quote:
Got that right. The diesel option on my Super Duty was just under $8k Unless you have heavy loads to tow it doesn't make sense. You will never recover the money on the diesel option in fuel savings. I am averaging 14.8 around town with the super duty. Not to shabby for a 7k+ lb truck.
Same as mine.
My grandkids (when I have them) will recover the cost of the option.
It sure does make towing breeze, though.
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:23 pm to treble hook
quote:
will it ever be cost effective to buy a diesel?
Compared to gas burners, no. A diesel engine will cost more to produce than a gas engine of similar displacement. Diesels are always going to have forced induction, heavier internals, and more complicated engine management.
Now for similar POWER outputs diesel engines wouldn't cost that much more. Match the torque of a diesel to the torque of a gas burner and you will likely have a similiar priced engine.
If the gas engines in 3/4 ton trucks were making 800 ft lbs off the showroom floor the diesel option would likely be cheaper.
ETA: For example, a 350 ft-lb torque diesel engine wouldn't be hard to build at all. A modestly sized 4 banger diesel could make that. People won't be willing to live with the reduction in percievable power and lower throttle respone though.
This post was edited on 3/11/13 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:27 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
800+ hp stock 6.7L
H&S performance sought to find the breaking point of the 6.7L diesel. Never thought a stock engine could handle this much power.
BTW: they managed over 600HP on just fuel and tuner.
H&S performance sought to find the breaking point of the 6.7L diesel. Never thought a stock engine could handle this much power.
BTW: they managed over 600HP on just fuel and tuner.
This post was edited on 3/11/13 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:30 pm to s14suspense
In a truck transmission, IMHO, the clutches shouldn't be slipping that much. I'd be curious as to when they have the TC set to lock out as well. They have such a variance in gearing, from first to OD, it would have to be slower to lock up. I am in the boat that bumping up line pressure and shifting trucks more firmly is the best way to do it. frick a pillow soft shift.
II am still not sold on the HCCI engines. Doesn't seem to me like they would make the power that a motor with artificial heat put into it would. Also don't like the idea if running an engine lean over 100k miles
II am still not sold on the HCCI engines. Doesn't seem to me like they would make the power that a motor with artificial heat put into it would. Also don't like the idea if running an engine lean over 100k miles
This post was edited on 3/11/13 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 3/11/13 at 2:30 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Now for similar POWER outputs diesel engines wouldn't cost that much more. Match the torque of a diesel to the torque of a gas burner and you will likely have a similiar priced engine.
So why aren't they building smaller diesel engines to put in the half tons? I don't need to have the same towing capacity as an 18 wheeler. I just want to be able to tow little boat around and get some decent mileage.
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