re: Whats up with all the love for 1911's?

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You pull the trigger and it goes bang more than twice as many times as a 1911 without failures.

The end.

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Actually you pull the trigger and it fires one round, which is the same as a 1911 I believe AND no failures either.

And if you need that many rounds you're probably screwed already. 8+1 in the pipe should be more than adequate. If you're getting into a prolonged shootout then something obviously went wrong somewhere.

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Less parts is less to go wrong. Plain and simple. And there is no way possible to knock having more ammunition

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I approve of this message.

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I'll take my 1911 with a rail-mounted X400, night sights, 8rd mag plus one in the chamber any day. And I'll put it up against any modern firearm you want to throw at it in terms of accuracy, reliability, etc.

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Accuracy in a fight with pistols is not really much of a factor. Reliability is. And while you may have a pistol that's very reliable for a 1911, you can't deny that it's harder to make one that reliable and it takes more maintenance to keep it that reliable than it does a modern glock/clone. And while you do hope that 8+1 is enough, there's too much evidence and history and case studies that show that a lot of the time, it's not. Pistols are not really great at putting someone down who's determined to kill you. So if you have the option of having over twice that amount of ammo in your pistol from the jump, and all other things being equal, why would you not want that?

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Accuracy in a fight with pistols is not really much of a factor.

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Reliability isn't much of a factor if you don't know where your rounds are going.

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And while you may have a pistol that's very reliable for a 1911, you can't deny that it's harder to make one that reliable and it takes more maintenance to keep it that reliable than it does a modern glock/clone.

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I honestly don't know where you guys are getting this idea that 1911's, particularly higher end models, are maintenance queens that require a bunch of extra work just to keep them serviceable.

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Pistols are not really great at putting someone down who's determined to kill you. So if you have the option of having over twice that amount of ammo in your pistol from the jump, and all other things being equal, why would you not want that?

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That's why my primary would be a shotgun. But if 8 or 9 rounds of 45acp doesn't put the perp down then you've got bigger problems. Plus I'm interested to know what kind of scenarios you're imagining where you're going to be able to just stand there and unload an entire mag? If you haven't put the guy down then it's safe to assume return fire is going to interrupt your ability to take advantage of those extra rounds as your arse better be finding cover.

As far as wanting the extra rounds, did you not see my comment about needing to take the shooter and their training/comfort level into account? If I'm confident in my abilities in handling a 1911 defensively then I'm not going to want to use another weapon that I'm not familiar with or accustomed to. Those extra rounds won't do you any good if you're not fully proficient with the piece in the first place.

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You would be just as comfortable with it if you chose to be and trained with it. And we're right back to that emotional attachment argument again.

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Wrong. I've spent plenty of time with Glocks and other pistols and I don't like the feel, I don't like how they handle, I don't want to use them in a life or death situation. It's not emotional attachment, and frankly that's a bullshite, unsubstantiated argument just to be clear, it's being smart enough to go with what you know works. Believe it or not, not everyone falls in love with a Glock even after spending plenty of time putting rounds downrange with the damn thing.

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I don't feel like arguing semantics, but I'll go to the range with anyone and we can't shoot as many rounds as we can and I will bet dollars to pesos that anyone of my 1911's will be just as reliable as any pistol someone wants to bring.

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Yeah, but that includes a full breakdown, cleaning, and relubing prior to the second half of the session...doesn't it? That is, if you can manage to make it through the first half without a round exploding in the barrel.

I'm not in love with my Glock either. If we are going to the range, I shoot it to keep that muscle memory trained. I shoot it differently than I do a 1911 because you can. You don't have the leeway to double tap every time you pull the trigger with a 1911 because those bullets are a lot more precious than they are in the Glock. If I'm shooting for the pure pleasure of it, I prefer a 1911 or a revolver.

And I assumed we were discussing a gunfight where everyone is basically equally well trained. Can 9 ring all day at a range. Basic good shooting for a cop. Which is why I said all things being equal.

Yes, you are correct. If you have to shoot more than 8 shots, you are in trouble. The difference is that with the glock, you're not in near the trouble you are now with the 1911. You're still in the fight. And I'm sorry, but you can train till your arms fall off and it's still not going to help the fact that generally when bullets are going both ways, shite suddenly doesn't go down like you pictured it. Your shooting will turn to shite compared to what you think you can do. And having the finest pistol ever made will not matter a single iota to whether you live through it or not because you now can't come even remotely close to utilizing that pistols accuracy level.

I don't picture a scenario where I stand there dumping a mag calmly to the end. That's why I want more ammo. Because you may be doing all kinds of shite where you just need to get some rounds down that direction to keep their head down while you get the frick out or it may be just the opposite where you keep their head down and advance or gain the initiative for when they pop their head out you're now lined up and waiting for them. That's the point. You just don't know so why not have more ammo?

Your answer is because the 1911 doesn't have more ammo. And you think that's not an emotional argument trumping good sense?

Look. Use whatever you're comfortable with. I've got a Mod 10 S&W 2" bobbed hammer that I have killed deer with by shooting him in the earhole and hit a cyalume stick at 75 yards on my first shot AT NIGHT vs a line of guys trying to hit it with AR's. (yes I know, luckiest shot ever made) I'm REAL comfortable with that thing. I've shot competition 1911's that worked better than viagra for boner generation. But if it's going to be my life on the line, and it's pistols, I want more ammo. I want all the intangibles in my favor before the fight starts and I refuse to handicap myself and hope for the best. I owe that to myself and to my family. And that's why I'd want the glock or one of the better modern polymer double stacked pistols.

All of this^^^^!!! I admit I have never shot a Glock, but I have held one, and it felt like I was holding a 4x4. (I'm not a big guy, and neither are my hands.). I know you say it's just a "feel good" attachment or nostalgia, but to me, when my life is on the line, I prefer comfort and confidence over a few extra rounds. And, as Tom288 said, if 8 rounds of 230 gr. JHP .45, at least 5 of which will probably be critical hits and hopefully all 8 are hits, doesn't stop them, you've got bigger problems.

Yeah you have bigger problems than you do if you just shot 8 times with a Glock. Way bigger.

See that's once again hoping instead of planning.

You're hoping that 8 will be sufficient instead of planning for the worst case scenario.

Couple weeks ago somebody posted a link to the break down on that gunfight in Baton Rouge against that roided out boxer that was killing the motorcycle cop. He absorbed a lot of killing shots and still was lethal and in the fight. I have no doubt that guy was not a professional gunfighter, but it made no difference because whether he died after the fight or not, that cop was gonna be dead first had the other guy not gotten involved and started pumping more rounds into him. He finally had to head shoot him from a foot away to make him stop. There were a lot more than 8 rounds shot in that fight.

Hell just look at all the damage the Boston bombers took and stayed in the fight.

You're hoping he goes down with less than 8. So am I but I'm not ruling out that he won't.