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re: OB's thoughts on lion killing situation in Africa?
Posted on 7/29/15 at 8:46 am to Galactic Inquisitor
Posted on 7/29/15 at 8:46 am to Galactic Inquisitor
its a cat.. i hate cats, i dont care. There are plenty more.
0
Posted on 7/29/15 at 8:47 am to mylsuhat
quote:
I had no idea that the lion I took was a known, local favorite, was collared and part of a study until the end of the hunt
so he shouldn't be held accountable for not properly looking at the animal before he took the shot?
if someone shoots a doe on public land on a non doe day, are they off the hook if they say "I didn't know it was a doe until after I shot it"?
Posted on 7/29/15 at 8:49 am to Salmon
All I'm saying is that with all these pictures of "Africa's most famous lion" you can not find one where the collar is visible
His mane completely covers it. It's like running a stop sign that a tree has grown over and covered
His mane completely covers it. It's like running a stop sign that a tree has grown over and covered
This post was edited on 7/29/15 at 8:50 am
Posted on 7/29/15 at 8:49 am to stewie
lions have a mane. How is he suppose to see a collar around the lions neck? Seems reasonable to me that he didn't see the collar
Posted on 7/29/15 at 8:50 am to stewie
quote:
The OT thread does have a fair amount of scientifically proven stats about the severe decline in the African Lion population.
I did stop reading after about 20 pages...but to say they are a species on the brink of extinction is an exaggeration. There is a reason they are not on the endangered list, there are still over 30k lions out there. I did read that the decline in population is not due to hunting, but due to human expansion in areas once populated by lions. One might say, if it weren't for these big game hunts, the population might be less than it is now.
quote:
How do you think the rest of the "non-hunting" population feels?
The rest of the population is easily swayed, tell them someone shot a pet lion and suddenly they are convinced that someone needs to "rot in prison". If this guy did all of the terrible things they say he did, I am all for punishment. But instead of paying for him to "rot in prison" maybe I would prefer him to dig into those obviously deep pockets and pay, literally, for his crimes.
Big game like lions are obviously a valuable natural resource, and I think they should be regulated, closely. Should this lead to more regulation? Maybe it is needed, I don't know the answer.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 8:51 am to mylsuhat
well do we know how long he had been collared? are there any pictures of the internet of him when he was collared?
and I'm sure the dentist would have taken the collar off to takes pics afterwards
and I'm sure the dentist would have taken the collar off to takes pics afterwards
Posted on 7/29/15 at 8:52 am to civiltiger07
quote:
lions have a mane. How is he suppose to see a collar around the lions neck? Seems reasonable to me that he didn't see the collar
the collars are pretty visible...
but it is a possibility that he could have not seen it
Posted on 7/29/15 at 8:53 am to mylsuhat
quote:
you can not find one where the collar is visible His mane completely covers it. It's like running a stop sign that a tree has grown over and covered
I quoted Palmer as viable evidence that there was a collar on the lion...you asked for a picture of the collar. Obviously, that's something I can't provide.
Whether he saw the collar or now is something we may never know. I certainly don't believe him...because he has lied in instances similar to this in the past. TWICE.
That being said, as Salmon noted, whether it was visible or not does not clear him of criminal or civil liability.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 8:55 am to stewie
quote:
I certainly don't believe him...because he has lied in instances similar to this in the past. TWICE.
I read about the black bear one, what was the other instance of this?
Posted on 7/29/15 at 8:57 am to stewie
quote:
whether it was visible or not does not clear him of criminal or civil liability.
True, but there is a big difference in responsibility between criminal negligence and being misled by a guide.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 8:59 am to DownSouthDave
quote:
One might say, if it weren't for these big game hunts, the population might be less than it is now.
I think nearly everyone on the OB, including myself, would agree with this.
It's not the hunt or the kill that has me up in arms, it's the reckless negligence of this big game outfit and this hunter and their attempt to cover it up.
quote:
The rest of the population is easily swayed
Yeah, especially in instances like this...that's the problem.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 9:00 am to gorillacoco
quote:
I read about the black bear one, what was the other instance of this?
It's all from the same incident with the bear but he lied to federal authorities on two separate occasions during their investigation before the truth came to light...according to various news outlets.
This post was edited on 7/29/15 at 9:01 am
Posted on 7/29/15 at 9:06 am to DownSouthDave
quote:
So big game hunting is akin to alcoholism? The only thing absurd is your response. If you're going to try and be clever with an analogy, at least pick one that works.
I didn't say big game hunting. I was talking about the statement that a hunter should support all other hunters in their behavior, as long as it's legal. That's absurd.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 9:10 am to ChatRabbit77
It' weird that they chose this cat, it's not like there is a shortage of non breeding male lions that need to be culled.
It's possible this guy got swindled and pimped.
Nearly everyone who hunts for anything other than meat, trophy hunts to a certain extent. So you can hardly blame the guy for wanting to take a Lion. Without trophy hunting a lot of animals would be a big trouble
3 hours of Joe Rogan and Corey Knowlton talking about this very topic LINK
Corey Knowlton is the guy who got all the shite for paying a couple hundred thousand dollars to shoot a black Rhino. He goes into great detail about how the system works. It's surprisingly effective considering it's in Africa. They do a pretty good job.
It's possible this guy got swindled and pimped.
Nearly everyone who hunts for anything other than meat, trophy hunts to a certain extent. So you can hardly blame the guy for wanting to take a Lion. Without trophy hunting a lot of animals would be a big trouble
3 hours of Joe Rogan and Corey Knowlton talking about this very topic LINK
Corey Knowlton is the guy who got all the shite for paying a couple hundred thousand dollars to shoot a black Rhino. He goes into great detail about how the system works. It's surprisingly effective considering it's in Africa. They do a pretty good job.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 9:15 am to stewie
quote:
his actions tug at a very sincere emotional place in the public's heart.
Show me how much the public (and Stewie) cared about that animal, and donated to support his conservation and that of his herd/pride/family prior to the kill. The public is in general frickin retarded. You see our elected officials, chosen by "the public" lately?
quote:
For the record...I hope he rots away in prison, either in the US but preferably Africa
I don't think anyone here is going to argue that he committed a crime. Even if he didn't see the collar (which is possible), by cutting it off and not reporting it to someone he's guilty of something. To want a human to rot in prison for the killing of an animal is ridiculous. The same people that do this argue the death penalty for crimes against other humans is inhumane.
quote:
He cast a very bad light on all of the honest, conservation minded, and law abiding hunters in the world.
Agree
quote:
He essentially signed the death warrant for nearly twelve cubs, furthering endangering a species on the brink of collapse.
This is 100% speculation. You a biologist specializing in African game management?
Posted on 7/29/15 at 9:19 am to ChatRabbit77
quote:
He did it legally and ethically. Also, this particular one has killed a 5 year old girl and had circled the village 2 weeks before he got out there. He did the village a service and got a trophy from it. He paid his money and helped conserve the species.
Your dad's buddy should be commended and celebrated for his service to the continent of africa and services to the village. Without your dad's buddy, who knows how many more circles this line would have made around the village.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 9:21 am to tenfoe
quote:
This is 100% speculation. You a biologist specializing in African game management?
Actually, it's fairly well-known that a new alpha male lion usually kills the cubs of the previous alpha. They aren't really the adopting type. The basis of this behavior is that when the females lose their cubs, they begin the breeding cycle with the new alpha, hence his genes take over the area.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 9:25 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
I was talking about the statement that a hunter should support all other hunters in their behavior
Now you are putting words in his mouth. He never said you anything about supporting hunters behavior. He is talking about duck hunters supporting deer hunters and guys that hunt locally supporting big game/trophy hunters.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 9:35 am to Chad504boy
quote:
circles this line
I think to show the difference in means to pursue a species can help people understand conservation through hunting. The lion he shot was a lone rogue who needed to be taken out of the population, not like Cecil. I get that some people don't like it (based on your sarcasm, I assume you don't) but what these ethical hunters do is better for the population than people who bitch about the hunting of lions over the internet.
This post was edited on 7/29/15 at 9:36 am
Posted on 7/29/15 at 9:40 am to tenfoe
quote:
Show me how much the public (and Stewie) cared about that animal, and donated to support his conservation and that of his herd/pride/family prior to the kill. The public is in general frickin retarded. You see our elected officials, chosen by "the public" lately
That's part of the problem, incidents like this can lead to wacky regulation because they are emotionally charged.
Yeah, I hope he has to pay for his crime.
This post was edited on 7/29/15 at 9:49 am
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