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M&P Shield for wife...and my CC when we travel

Posted on 4/18/17 at 7:07 am
Posted by NASA_ISS_Tiger
Huntsville, Al via Sulphur, LA
Member since Sep 2005
7981 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 7:07 am
So my wife saw the Shield at Cabelas over the weekend...and saw that they matched prices within 100 miles...Larry's Pistol and Pawn was having a sale for $344.44 and you also get a mail in $75 rebate...so we picked one up (in 9mm because she liked the ballistics and the extra round and the fact that I don't have to buy another reloading die).

She wanted to get a holster for it while it's in her purse and I'll need an IWB for CC. Also she wanted to get a laser sight on it. I saw the Crimson Trace ones for $229...does the OB have recommendations on a good IWB and/or a recommendation on a laser for it?

TIA
Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22155 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 7:14 am to
Why a laser on a CC gun? It's just going to add more weight and bulk and add little to no utility. I would reconsider. As for an IWB holster, I have an alien gear that I like. There's also been several threads on holsters for the shield lately with some good suggestions, so you might try searching for those.
Posted by NASA_ISS_Tiger
Huntsville, Al via Sulphur, LA
Member since Sep 2005
7981 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 7:47 am to
I'd likely take the laser off..the laser is for her. I don't need a laser. Maybe after she gets a few rounds downrange and is comfortable with the sight picture she won't feel the need.

But yes, the laser would not be on the weapon when it's CC.

I'll go back and review the other threads....I was just trying to kill 2 birds with one stone.

So no recommendations on laser manufacturer then? Other than the weight/bulk and you're against it?
Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
11891 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 7:53 am to
quote:

She wanted to get a holster for it while it's in her purse


Know that there are some serious downsides to purse carry that may not outweigh the upsides:

1. The gun isn't physically on you
2. The purse will likely be the first thing a snatcher wants to grab
3. Purse snatchings are very violent since the snatcher does not care about the victim and only wants the purse
4. The chances of a child digging into a purse and causing a negligent discharge are higher with a gun in there (a story in Missouri a couple years ago explained how a mother was shot in the head by her baby with a purse-carried handgun)
5. Having a gun in the purse may be better than not having a gun at all, but given these risks, that's something you'll have to weigh yourself.

It is much smarter to have her carry on her body. While the female body and female clothing styles make it trickier, there are plenty of resources online. Girl's Guide to Guns, Cornered Cat, The Well-Armed Woman, and others give a good resource for armed women to smartly carry concealed. Have her digest information from those resources before purse carrying.

quote:

Also she wanted to get a laser sight on it.


Agreed with the previous poster that it isn't really necessary to put a laser on it. While the laser allows you to keep your eyes on a threat more easily, those who get a laser tend to depend on it for putting accurate rounds on target. If you cannot instinctively use your firearm with the factory sights, you need more practice.

That being said, if you think having a laser will be an added benefit, I don't think anyone will discourage that decision. We're simply here to let you know it isn't entirely necessary.

EDIT:

quote:

So no recommendations on laser manufacturer then? Other than the weight/bulk and you're against it?


If you get one, purchase from Crimson Trace or Viridian.
This post was edited on 4/18/17 at 7:54 am
Posted by TU Rob
Birmingham
Member since Nov 2008
12738 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 7:53 am to
I have an insight X2L for my XD. Rarely use it but I keep it on my truck gun. Mainly for light. It has held up well and works fine after years of riding around
Posted by NASA_ISS_Tiger
Huntsville, Al via Sulphur, LA
Member since Sep 2005
7981 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 8:20 am to
Thank you Bapple. Well written and thought out post.
I think the real reason for the laser is when I'm on travel and she's home alone.

As I've told her before if we get invaded at home...just empty the magazine if you fear for your life. I'll deal with the legal system later. I'd rather her be in lock up than dead if it comes to that.

Totally agree with the comments 1-3 and 5. 4 is not an issue because we can't have children. Mostly the weapon will be on me rather than my 1911. Her CC is expired and we are waiting on Alabama's ruling on CC permits...it's in the State Senate today. But I know she'd be able to get one just fine.

If we got broken into...that means the criminal REALLY wanted something...with the ADT sign, the 2 80 pound dogs, and the other security measures...at that point...the guy must be near radical/stupid/on drugs to do something.

I truly think just getting about a 100 rounds of trigger pulling will get her comfortable with the weapon and this talk of laser will go by the wayside. As far as the carrying...likely me. But when she's home alone...it's all hers.
Posted by Fight4LSU
Kenner
Member since Jul 2005
9756 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 8:28 am to
I have a Stealthgear Onyx. It's really comfortable. It's a little pricey, but I wouldn't recommend taking the cheap route on anything holding a loaded pistol.
This post was edited on 4/18/17 at 1:38 pm
Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
11891 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 8:33 am to
quote:

As I've told her before if we get invaded at home...just empty the magazine if you fear for your life


Well, not the most thorough advice but I get what you're mainly saying - if you're justified in using force, you can use a higher level of force than your attacker, i.e. it doesn't matter how many rounds are fired. But I wouldn't advise her completely empty the gun simply from being scared, especially with a mag capacity as low as the shield, which brings me to...

Why are you wanting this gun to serve double duty of carry gun and home defense gun? Why not have a dedicated full sized gun for home defense that's easier to shoot and holds more ammo? My girlfriend has a VP9 and I haven't met a single person who isn't able to shoot it easily. A full sized gun will always be exponentially easier to shoot than a subcompact. If you aren't having to carry it on you, there's no reason to limit yourself to a subcompact.

Or you can also go with a long gun as I do in my home. An AR15 is about the best home defense weapon you can use since the light, high-velocity projectile is more likely to break up when striking walls.
Posted by Timmayy
Houston
Member since Mar 2016
1592 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 8:40 am to
First off your wife is awesome for going to the store and picking out basically the gold standard for concealed carry on her own.

Secondly I agree with everything Bapple said and really advise you to try and look at the sources posted as to figure out what carry method would work best for your wife.

One thing I will say though is if the gun is supposed to play this many roles it sounds like you need more guns. Who is ever going to complain about that. Plus it sounds like your wife is onboard so your good to go. The reason I really say this is it sounds like your wife's number one use for this gun right now is as a home defense gun. The shield will definitely work as a home defense gun but there are much better alternatives than limiting yourself to 9rds from a small gun that isn't the easiest thing in the world to shoot. I know you have a 1911 but have you thought about buying your wife/ yourself a homedefense fullsize polymer striker pistol like the glock 19 or smith & wesson M&P?
These types of guns have so many advantages over a small single stack gun and no discernible disadvantages as a home defense gun. Some noteable advantages being 15+ rds much easier to handle and operate and much more inherently accurate and fast to get shots on target. If you think your wife is too small to shoot a fullsize I promise she is not, my 5'1 girlfriend says my 19 is her favorite gun to shoot.

Sorry for the wall of text but I figured I had to take the OB duty of pushing a fullsize gun.
This post was edited on 4/18/17 at 8:43 am
Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
11891 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 9:18 am to
quote:

If you think your wife is too small to shoot a fullsize I promise she is not, my 5'1 girlfriend says my 19 is her favorite gun to shoot.


This would also raise the question - if you don't think your wife could handle a full sized gun, how would she be able to handle a subcompact? The full sized gun will be easier to handle in every regard except for concealing and carrying.

It sounds like you've been to the range already so I'm not questioning your wife's ability to handle the shield. If she's capable of handling the shield well, she will be shocked at how much easier a full sized gun is to handle and manipulate.
Posted by NASA_ISS_Tiger
Huntsville, Al via Sulphur, LA
Member since Sep 2005
7981 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 9:44 am to
I understand your arguments for the long gun/full size pistol and I agree. But in the end it's her that has to be comfortable using the weapon as a tool.

She's comfortable with her shotgun and my AR-15 just fine. The only gun she won't touch is my .308, but that's overkill and not for home defense in this topic (it's not an AR weapon). Problem is, most of the time those weapons are locked in the liberty gun safe, so the time to get the weapon out could cause crucial time loss. She has handled the Shield before (her father has one that we shot a few magazines through) and she loved it. She's scared of my 1911 as well as the Ruger 9mm I have (she has small hands and doesn't feel as if she has a good grip on those weapons...and she doesn't like the muzzle jump of the .45). Historically it's been her shotgun she's requested I take out for her...and that's always a possibility again.
Posted by NASA_ISS_Tiger
Huntsville, Al via Sulphur, LA
Member since Sep 2005
7981 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 9:46 am to
quote:

Well, not the most thorough advice but I get what you're mainly saying - if you're justified in using force, you can use a higher level of force than your attacker, i.e. it doesn't matter how many rounds are fired. But I wouldn't advise her completely empty the gun simply from being scared, especially with a mag capacity as low as the shield, which brings me to...



Spoken like a LEO. My best friend (who is a LEO in SWLA) has said those exact words before...
Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
11891 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 10:31 am to
quote:

She's scared of my 1911 as well as the Ruger 9mm I have (she has small hands and doesn't feel as if she has a good grip on those weapons


She is severely limiting herself by not even trying other options.

What you need to focus on is grip width/taper. There are plenty double stack guns that have a thin grip (or adjustable sizes) for shooters with smaller hands.

Also explain to her that if she can handle the shield she will likely handle a full sized gun much better. If I need to list the pros of full sized guns, I have a saved post for that.

In the meantime, I'll paste another saved post I made a while back about grip taper:

_____________________

quote:

And finally if she has really small hands she may have trouble with many double stack designs.



Honestly, most grips that are tapered make it easy for women to shoot. I've seen this numerous times in my classes. The most well-liked guns that women shoot in my classes are my M&P full size, and my girlfriend's VP9. Guns like a Glock 19/17, FN FNS9, FNX45, Springfield XD, or any gun without a grip taper will feel 2x4ish. The "grip taper" I'm referring to is that the width of the grip increases as you get father from the slide. So it will be slimmer closer to the slide than at the magwell. Here's what I mean (notice the VP9 is slimmer at the top and the Glock has the same width throughout the grip):

This post was edited on 4/18/17 at 10:34 am
Posted by dawg23
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Jul 2011
5065 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 11:03 am to
quote:

If you cannot instinctively use your firearm with the factory sights, you need more practice.
I agree with this. The laser may have some value in certain circumstances - for example, someone wears contacts to correct really severe vision problems, and won't have time at 2:00 a.m. to put them in before responding to an attacker.

But the laser will almost always be slower than iron sights (especially if the battery, activation switch, diode, whatever decides to TU).

Too many women get "sold" on lasers, and use them as a crutch. Step one is learn to use the iron (factory) sights. Then, maybe, she'll need the laser as "step two.".

quote:

if you're justified in using force, you can use a higher level of force than your attacker,
This is just not correct.

If deadly force is legally justified, then discharging a firearm is obviously a justifiable option (as would be pulling a knife, or wielding a baseball bat).

But in non-deadly uses of force against an attacker, the defender's level of force has to be proportional to that of the attacker.
Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
11891 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 11:14 am to
quote:

This is just not correct.



Good correction. Should've specified the deadly force part.
Posted by NASA_ISS_Tiger
Huntsville, Al via Sulphur, LA
Member since Sep 2005
7981 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 11:38 am to
Thanks for all the information and objective responses.

Typically I've noticed I get a lot of opinions without information from internet "bad asses" who stalk forums as a means to justify their existence...but not in this thread.

Thank you all.
Posted by dawg23
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Jul 2011
5065 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 1:50 pm to
quote:

Typically I've noticed I get a lot of opinions without information from internet "bad asses" who stalk forums as a means to justify their existence...but not in this thread.

Now I'm offended -- I thought I qualified as an internet bad arse.
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
38785 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 2:43 pm to
look into a belly band holster
I love mine
Posted by ChenierauTigre
Dreamland
Member since Dec 2007
34516 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 2:44 pm to
I do not like a laser on a gun. That tells the perp and his friend exactly where you are. I like it to be a surprise when he hears the big boom. But that's just me.
Posted by NASA_ISS_Tiger
Huntsville, Al via Sulphur, LA
Member since Sep 2005
7981 posts
Posted on 4/18/17 at 3:35 pm to
Dude:

You're LEO. You have my respect. No bad arse needed.

quote:

Louisiana State Police Concealed Handgun Instructor
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