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Message
re: Lab bit by snake.
Posted on 10/16/16 at 10:45 pm to LSUballs
Posted on 10/16/16 at 10:45 pm to LSUballs
I would never end up seeing a case like this in my job.
But, yeah, probably a good idea to get it checked out by his vet if dog can't even open it's mouth. Pretty irresponsible for people to say that he should let it be when none of us are there to say one way or the other. Do you know that this dog isn't experiencing life threatening blood clotting issues? Airway closure? What's your response gonna be if he posts here tomorrow and tells you how his dog died b/c it just let it be?
Every tough guy on here saying that he shouldn't worry about it would be racing to the ER if they were bitten. I guarantee you the bill would be more than $250. I don't think my dog is even close to being as valuable as a human life but he's sure as hell worth the couple hundred it might cost to get him checked out.
But, yeah, probably a good idea to get it checked out by his vet if dog can't even open it's mouth. Pretty irresponsible for people to say that he should let it be when none of us are there to say one way or the other. Do you know that this dog isn't experiencing life threatening blood clotting issues? Airway closure? What's your response gonna be if he posts here tomorrow and tells you how his dog died b/c it just let it be?
Every tough guy on here saying that he shouldn't worry about it would be racing to the ER if they were bitten. I guarantee you the bill would be more than $250. I don't think my dog is even close to being as valuable as a human life but he's sure as hell worth the couple hundred it might cost to get him checked out.
Posted on 10/16/16 at 10:51 pm to AubieALUMdvm
I have 8 vials of anitvenom. Cost $1500.
Posted on 10/16/16 at 10:58 pm to Sparkplug#1
Yep. It's very expensive to actually administer it which is why most vets don't do it unless they determine that it's a life or death situation.
Posted on 10/16/16 at 11:01 pm to AubieALUMdvm
quote:
What's your response gonna be if he posts here tomorrow and tells you how his dog died b/c it just let it be?
This is my problem with these threads.
With my dogs, I'm erring on the side of caution. Especially if the dog can't open its mouth.
Posted on 10/16/16 at 11:01 pm to AubieALUMdvm
I bought it for myself. I was told 8 would be the max needed for a human, normally. I have no idea about a dog.
Posted on 10/16/16 at 11:14 pm to Sparkplug#1
Back when I worked general and ER practice and saw these cases the most I ever gave to a dog was 4 vials. He was in really bad shape with a head the size of a basketball.
Unfortunately some did die: 1 bitten on the tongue and neck so he couldn't breathe and the others were from massive blood clotting abnormalities- this is basically when some stimulus (like venom) is circulating in blood. Body recognizes it and overreacts, massive inflammation (shock), and blood starts making clots (b/c of the venom) and breakign them down everywhere. Eventually you get clots lodged in all the major organs - once this happens you're in big trouble.
All of them were from rattlers or moccasins. Never lost a dog to a copperhead.
Unfortunately some did die: 1 bitten on the tongue and neck so he couldn't breathe and the others were from massive blood clotting abnormalities- this is basically when some stimulus (like venom) is circulating in blood. Body recognizes it and overreacts, massive inflammation (shock), and blood starts making clots (b/c of the venom) and breakign them down everywhere. Eventually you get clots lodged in all the major organs - once this happens you're in big trouble.
All of them were from rattlers or moccasins. Never lost a dog to a copperhead.
Posted on 10/16/16 at 11:23 pm to AubieALUMdvm
I had a female GSP bitten by a cotton mouth on her rear foot, Jan 30th of this year. The bite caused a stroke and her white blood cells to attack her red blood cells. Vet that did the original treatment see lots of snake bites, never seen one this bad. She said normally the dog is dead and never makes it to her or the dag makes in to the office and is ok with minimal treatment. 24 hours at the initial vet, 2 weeks in ICU, 2 months at home slowly getting better and then crashed and died. We think she was affected by the venom so bad because the snake had probably been laid up hibernating for a long time and the snake hit an artery combined with her running while hunting.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:33 am to laslabjohn
My yellow lab got bit by a cottonmouth. Super quick strike, face swole up like a cantaloupe. Came out fine, no vet.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:35 am to wickowick
Dang wick, think I remember hearing that, but it sucks.
Would like to get an update from the OP.
Its always obvious in these threads that people think very differently about dogs...and that's perfectly okay. I would guess that 90% of dogs bitten are fine without vet treatment. My dog is too awesome to risk being in that 10% without getting a professional opinion
Would like to get an update from the OP.
Its always obvious in these threads that people think very differently about dogs...and that's perfectly okay. I would guess that 90% of dogs bitten are fine without vet treatment. My dog is too awesome to risk being in that 10% without getting a professional opinion
Posted on 10/17/16 at 6:31 am to wickowick
Lots of fricking dumbasses in this thread.
Like someone said. If nothing else, and you gave half a shite about your dog, you would at least want some pain relief for your dog.
Marrying a vet, and having a hunting dog, we've had the conversation about course of action for snake bites, and the biggest thing is managing the pain and keeping the airway clear in the short term, and preventing infection in the long term, but being with wick's dog when she crashed in the woods after a bite and spending hours with her trying to stabilize her. There's no chance I would be the irresponsible a-hole and just let the dog get better on it's own
Like someone said. If nothing else, and you gave half a shite about your dog, you would at least want some pain relief for your dog.
Marrying a vet, and having a hunting dog, we've had the conversation about course of action for snake bites, and the biggest thing is managing the pain and keeping the airway clear in the short term, and preventing infection in the long term, but being with wick's dog when she crashed in the woods after a bite and spending hours with her trying to stabilize her. There's no chance I would be the irresponsible a-hole and just let the dog get better on it's own
This post was edited on 10/17/16 at 8:24 am
Posted on 10/17/16 at 7:54 am to BigHoss
quote:
Lots of fricking dumbasses in this thread.
I wouldn't go that far. Just the typical people clueless about dogs, some vets and vet spouses.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 8:17 am to LSUballs
My Boykin hunts snakes around the house. Been bitten 10+ times by cottonmouths, copperheads and rattlesnakes. I know because he always delivers the snake to the back door. Been to the vet on a few of those. Our vet says the biggest threat to a dog from a bite is an infection. Always administer antibiotics for a few days after the bite if you give a damn about your dog.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 8:54 am to laslabjohn
My grandparent's farm dogs would get bit. They swole up, then a day or two later they were fine. They aren't going to use anti-venom unless you are 99% sure what kind of snake it was. Most large dogs seem to be able to take North American pit viper bites in stride. GDCK not so much.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 10:40 am to Napoleon
So from the vets, spouses of vets, people who have visited vets and people who had dogs actually bitten
we have 4-5 different recommendations. Anti venom, no anti-venom cause snake was identified. One vet admitted he doesn't treat it unless life threatening and then his patients still died. Another who had a dog that died after 2 months of treatment (sorry for the loss).
But based on all of this...calling people dumbasses when the results have been so mixed with majority who had dogs swell up and then be just fine is an obtuse statement with no data backing the statement.
we have 4-5 different recommendations. Anti venom, no anti-venom cause snake was identified. One vet admitted he doesn't treat it unless life threatening and then his patients still died. Another who had a dog that died after 2 months of treatment (sorry for the loss).
But based on all of this...calling people dumbasses when the results have been so mixed with majority who had dogs swell up and then be just fine is an obtuse statement with no data backing the statement.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 10:46 am to jimjackandjose
It is my understanding that the venom is out of the dogs system in the first 24-36 hours. Sometimes the snake bite will cause the dog's body to react/ trigger other problems, like my dog did. For Savannah, she was locked up paralyzed within 15 minutes of being bitten.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 10:49 am to jimjackandjose
I didn't call anyone a dumbass
Posted on 10/17/16 at 11:14 am to Masterag
Benadryl doesn't do anything for snake bites, for the record, unless it's some very rare case where your dog is allergic to snake venom.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:37 pm to Teague
Got a Jack Russell that has been bit about a dozen times. He swells up and lays around for a day then completely back to normal. She hates a snake with a passion, I can't pull her off of one.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 2:08 pm to jimjackandjose
quote:
So from the vets, spouses of vets, people who have visited vets and people who had dogs actually bitten
we have 4-5 different recommendations. Anti venom, no anti-venom cause snake was identified. One vet admitted he doesn't treat it unless life threatening and then his patients still died. Another who had a dog that died after 2 months of treatment (sorry for the loss).
But based on all of this...calling people dumbasses when the results have been so mixed
Sounds like you're describing a pretty unpredictable situation - I don't think i'd be so cavalier about saying someone's dog will "be just fine" with a potentially dangerous and volatile condition. Hence the recommendation of: have the pup at least checked out to make sure everything is ok.
quote:
One vet admitted he doesn't treat it unless life threatening and then his patients still died.
Admitted? Are you implying that it was something I'd want to hide? It's just a fact that antivenom is not administered in every case and it's up to an individual practitioner to decide when it's appropriate. Of course you have to get them to the practitioner in the first place. Most of the time when I recommended it it was refused b/c of cost. It's not as if that's the only treatment either so don't come away from this thinking that the only life saving treatment is antivenom. Many a dog has been saved using simple IV fluid and blood and/or plasma transfusions.
Yes, of course some still died because, again, it's an unpredictable and potentially dangerous situation.
And again - anyone saying to just let it be should answer the question: what would you do if you were bitten by a moccasin or rattlesnake? This idea that dogs "handle it better" is silly. They feel the same immense pain we do when injected with venom. So what do the tough guys have to say to this? We're very unlikely to die from a venomous snake bite so why don't you just take some benadryl and sleep it off?
quote:
Fewer than one in 37,500 people are bitten by venomous snakes in the U.S. each year (7-8,000 bites per year), and only one in 50 million people will die from snakebite (5-6 fatalities per year).
LINK
This post was edited on 10/17/16 at 2:15 pm
Posted on 10/18/16 at 8:51 am to BigHoss
quote:
Lots of fricking dumbasses in this thread.
Like someone said. If nothing else, and you gave half a shite about your dog, you would at least want some pain relief for your dog.
Marrying a vet, and having a hunting dog, we've had the conversation about course of action for snake bites, and the biggest thing is managing the pain and keeping the airway clear in the short term, and preventing infection in the long term, but being with wick's dog when she crashed in the woods after a bite and spending hours with her trying to stabilize her. There's no chance I would be the irresponsible a-hole and just let the dog get better on it's own
bird dawgs and bird hunting have been my passion since 1977. Over those years I have personally witnessed about a dozen dogs get bit by venomous snakes - only one of those dogs was fine with no treatment - if fact that one barely swole up and it was likely the proverbial reflex "dry bite".
Many times when people see a dog with swelling they assume snake bite and more likely than not swelling that goes away in a day is by and large NOT from a venomous snake bite - it is more likely from a bee, hornet or other powerful stinging insect not a venomous snake.
I have seen about a half a dozen non bird dogs whose owners thought they were stung by bees but later died - the more likely culprit there although not actually witnessed.
Of the dozen that I have witnessed - the 4 that got no treatment ALL DIED. 1 copperhead, 2 Mocs and 1 cane break - the cane break was the quickest. I have had one dog bitten twice both reactions and recoveries were pretty rough. The cane break bite dog was on the way to the vet when it died - about an hour ride. The only one that was ignoring treatment was the copperhead bite - the dogs owner was "hoping" it was a "dry bite".
if your dog gets bitten by a venomous snake and you do not go to the vet - you are taking a very bad gamble.
If you think all these dogs are bitten by venomous snakes and have venom injected and magically recover in a couple of days... I sure wish you naive folks would have been hot cheerleaders when i was 16.
I am real good friends with a vet that also runs a ranch in texas where they have a lot quail dogs bitten by snakes - for he and his wife much of what is posted on this thread is laughable.
if any of you think your dog is venom proof - I have $100 bucks that says it is not and can get a canebreak or cotton mouth on short notice to prove you wrong if you care to take that wager.
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