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Gun dog?
Posted on 1/18/16 at 9:52 pm
Posted on 1/18/16 at 9:52 pm
I duck hunt maybe 10-15 times a year and dove hunt maybe 1-5 times a year. Sending dog (black lab) to discipline school but thinking about paying a lot more extra to get dog trained for hunting. Do you think it is worth extra or should I try and do it myself after discipline school or do I not hunt enough to even bother? Thanks
4
Posted on 1/18/16 at 9:54 pm to Lsutmorg
Train yourself. It's fun and not hard at all.
You hunt more than enough
You hunt more than enough
Posted on 1/19/16 at 10:26 am to Lsutmorg
A lot depends on how well disciplined you want your dog to be. I have buddies that have trained their dogs themselves, and are great retrievers and pick up a lot of ducks. However, they won't go on 200-300 yard blind retrieves, which can be pretty hard to train a dog to do if you aren't experienced in training dogs for that. But both sides (training yourself or sending dog of) both have their pros and cons.
Posted on 1/19/16 at 10:36 am to JTM72
quote:
However, they won't go on 200-300 yard blind retrieves,
most pro trained dogs can't do this.....
most handlers can't handle this far in a hunting situation
if fact of the 20 blinds we hunted this year a dog could not see to handle past 75-80 yards.
Posted on 1/19/16 at 11:39 am to Lsutmorg
Do it yourself. It's not hard and you will have a much stronger bond with the dog after.
Posted on 1/19/16 at 11:53 am to choupiquesushi
quote:
most pro trained dogs can't do this.....
most handlers can't handle this far in a hunting situation
This. I always think it's funny when people judge dogs based on things like this. For instance, my dog's furthest cold blind she ever ran was a mottled duck my friend winged really badly on a passing shot. The bird landed at maybe 200 yards, and by the time she got to it, it was close to 275, judged by knowing the length of the pond we were hunting. She took it with one handle (subtle brag, I was proud of her), but as soon as I gave her the back cast (~100yds), I lost sight of her for about 10 minutes. I was almost at the point of getting in the pirogue to go get her when she hit the water with a fully alive mottled duck in her mouth.
Point being, that was the last day of last duck season. My attitude at the time was "well, why not," but the entire time I couldn't see her, I was worried about a nutria getting her or something like that (she's gotten into it with one twice). To me, it was an irresponsible/ego boost move on my part, and now, I won't send my dog on blinds where I feel like I couldn't get to her relatively quickly if I needed to. Not to mention, like you said, most of the time she can't see me to handle past 100yds anyway. If it's open water I don't have as much of an issue with it.
Anyways, my main point here is just to train your dog yourself if you feel up to it. If you're not going to breed her/him, or you're not super into dog games, there's really no reason to train him/her up to a level like that. Train it to be a good companion, take basic handles, and pick up your ducks. The bond you form with the dog will be much stronger than if you send it off. That's the ultimate goal anyways. Shoot ducks over your decoys and leave the appendage-measuring to the dog game crowd.
eta: Some of the best dogs I've ever hunted over had no letters by their names. I've also hunted over a FCAFC and he was a total badass. One of the worst dogs I've ever hunted over was a MH badass derby dog. He was miserable in the blind and his owner just yelled at him the entire time. Too fast, too slow, get that bird first, leave that one, etc. It was a miserable hunt and I felt bad for the dog.
This post was edited on 1/19/16 at 11:58 am
Posted on 1/19/16 at 12:43 pm to bluemoons
bluemoons well said... the hunt test game was a good game for sharpening dogs but it has kinda involved into simply a money maker for many mid level pay trainers no pro's...
IMHO pros compete against their peers...
personally - after losing a dog - I am no longer too crazy about a dog getting 300 yards out from me..
it's way over rated..
be steady in the blind - catch a running cripple and handle reasonably way...
did I say be steady in the blind...
and don't create problems with other dogs at the camp or on the hunt...
IMHO pros compete against their peers...
personally - after losing a dog - I am no longer too crazy about a dog getting 300 yards out from me..
it's way over rated..
be steady in the blind - catch a running cripple and handle reasonably way...
did I say be steady in the blind...
and don't create problems with other dogs at the camp or on the hunt...
Posted on 1/19/16 at 12:43 pm to bluemoons
If you do the training, you will be limited to what you can teach, because of the fact you are by yourself, usually with very little equipment. A few drills aren't a problem, but with marking it is a huge problem. Usually the quick temper of amateurs is a big problem.
A pro has the equipment such as wingers that can get close to simulating a hunting situation for double and triple situations. Pro's know that each dog is different about handling pressure and time to recover pressure. It's like a coach knowing how to get the best out of his/her players.
A pro has the equipment such as wingers that can get close to simulating a hunting situation for double and triple situations. Pro's know that each dog is different about handling pressure and time to recover pressure. It's like a coach knowing how to get the best out of his/her players.
Posted on 1/19/16 at 1:19 pm to rodnreel
quote:
A pro has the equipment such as wingers that can get close to simulating a hunting situation for double and triple situations. Pro's know that each dog is different about handling pressure and time to recover pressure. It's like a coach knowing how to get the best out of his/her players.
human bird boys better than wingers.... just sayin'..
and if dog lives inside with it's family - there is no way the pro trainer knows the dog better.
This post was edited on 1/19/16 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 1/19/16 at 2:02 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:
choupiquesushi
Agree on all accounts.
If you get serious enough about it, just buy yourself a winger. I train with another guy very often, and we went in halves on one.
Posted on 1/19/16 at 3:19 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:
the hunt test game was a good game for sharpening dogs but it has kinda involved into simply a money maker for many mid level pay trainers no pro's...
UKC hunts tests or AKC field trails? I took my last BLM to Finished but that was 12 years ago and got my BLF her HRC but shite, that was almost 20. I just got back in the game with a new YLF and really want to start doing hunt tests again because it was really laid back. Is this not the case anymore? It used to be way more individual owners than trainers back then.
Posted on 1/19/16 at 3:32 pm to Lsutmorg
I have had a good dog I trained and later sold and hunted over many that were taught in the back yard. If they'll pick up a duck you knocked down and bring it back, that's 75% of the battle and good enough for most hunters.
If you want one you can send, whistle, make him sit, and send a different direction with a hand signal... Send it to a professional trainer.
Even with those, it seems a lot of dogs regress and just become comfortable with the blind, surroundings and handler and pick up the majority of the ducks. The hand signaling, force fetch, etc. go out the window for more practical actions. In other words, if you knock down 2 or 3, most hunters will not complain if the dog brings the first one back, drops it, and heads back without a command or holding the bird until the handler takes it and sends him back.
I'd much rather hunt with that handler and dog, than the guy who yells at his dog, slaps and beats the shite out of him every 5 minutes for not sitting perfectly still or holding the bird until he says give.
If you want one you can send, whistle, make him sit, and send a different direction with a hand signal... Send it to a professional trainer.
Even with those, it seems a lot of dogs regress and just become comfortable with the blind, surroundings and handler and pick up the majority of the ducks. The hand signaling, force fetch, etc. go out the window for more practical actions. In other words, if you knock down 2 or 3, most hunters will not complain if the dog brings the first one back, drops it, and heads back without a command or holding the bird until the handler takes it and sends him back.
I'd much rather hunt with that handler and dog, than the guy who yells at his dog, slaps and beats the shite out of him every 5 minutes for not sitting perfectly still or holding the bird until he says give.
Posted on 1/19/16 at 3:42 pm to Clyde Tipton
quote:
The hand signaling, force fetch, etc. go out the window for more practical actions.
I have trained 4 Labs to Finished and of the 3 that got FF, all of them were done by a true pro. FF is not really a project most backyard trainers can do without taking a huge gamble on possibly fricking up their dog.
As for hand signals, it's not that much harder to do blinds if the dog already has a solid foundation to build from. In the end, it's all about time and patience.
Posted on 1/19/16 at 4:19 pm to MWP
quote:
Is this not the case anymore? It used to be way more individual owners than trainers back then.
UKC is much more laid back than AKC, but UKC still has an annoying amount of dick measuring.
quote:
FF is not really a project most backyard trainers can do without taking a huge gamble on possibly fricking up their dog.
As for hand signals, it's not that much harder to do blinds if the dog already has a solid foundation to build from. In the end, it's all about time and patience.
I agree with that to an extent. I think novice trainers can get through force fetch so long as they're patient and understanding of the individual dog. There is enough media online to give people visual ideas of what to expect and how to handle things in force fetch. I think the most important thing in FF is to remember that each dog takes it differently. While my pup might be picking up the block off the ground in 4 days, it might take another three weeks.
This post was edited on 1/19/16 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 1/19/16 at 4:49 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:
However, they won't go on 200-300 yard blind retrieves,
quote:
most pro trained dogs can't do this.....
most handlers can't handle this far in a hunting situation
if fact of the 20 blinds we hunted this year a dog could not see to handle past 75-80 yards.
If you paid a Pro to train your dog and he/she can't run a 200-300 yard blind then you should take a step back and reassess who your trainer is.
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