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Started By
Message
Do any of you guys use a deer management program?
Posted on 9/30/15 at 9:14 am
Posted on 9/30/15 at 9:14 am
My family's hunting club needs a lot of changes done
4
Posted on 9/30/15 at 9:18 am to biggsc
Yes
Posted on 9/30/15 at 9:22 am to Easternrio
What do you do?
1. We need to let the bucks grow and let their antlers outside the ears and be at least 3-4 years old
2. We still do deer drives with dogs and do 6 points or better
3. Too many people in our hunting club.
4. Need to be a trophy hunting club and not a social club
1. We need to let the bucks grow and let their antlers outside the ears and be at least 3-4 years old
2. We still do deer drives with dogs and do 6 points or better
3. Too many people in our hunting club.
4. Need to be a trophy hunting club and not a social club
Posted on 9/30/15 at 9:39 am to biggsc
quote:
1. We need to let the bucks grow and let their antlers outside the ears and be at least 3-4 years old
quote:
4. Need to be a trophy hunting club and not a social club
These aren't compatible statements. A true trophy club would not consider a 3, and probably not a 4 yr old deer, a trophy.
Sounds like you have a lot of people who aren't going to listen to what you say anyway. If you can convince some people to not shoot 2 yr old deer, over the course of a few years you will see an increase in 3-4 yr old deer.
quote:
6 points or better
This is a silly rule. I'm against almost all management programs that have a point rule. Let deer get older, and you'll have more big deer. A 4.5 yr old 6 point is much more appealing to most than a 2.5 yr old 8 pt.
quote:
We still do deer drives with dogs
People will say this runs deer off, I have seen little real evidence to support that. Deer have stuff chasing them from the time they are born. This will put more pressure on them, and you'll likely see most of the movement at night though. Most mature bucks are killed when does are in heat, when they aren't even thinking correctly. You can have 100 dogs in the woods and it won't make a difference in what that buck on a hot doe does.
quote:
. Too many people in our hunting club.
Get more land, or less people.
Posted on 9/30/15 at 9:54 am to tenfoe
Thanks man. So what is the recommended age of a deer to kill?
Posted on 9/30/15 at 9:56 am to biggsc
quote:
deer drives with dogs
quote:
trophy hunting club
Kind of incompatible. Trigger control is hard enough when you are still hunting.
quote:
Too many people in our hunting club.
quote:
social club
How many acres/person? If the family wants to hunt together and has outgrown the property, can you lease more nearby? Make the new area the trophy area.
What do the others want the club to be? Are you one of the ones making decisions for the family?
Posted on 9/30/15 at 9:57 am to biggsc
The simplest management program to shoot trophy bucks, is to only shoot trophy bucks. I know it sounds dumb, but it's true.
To grow big bucks, the single hardest element to manage is self control.
To grow big bucks, the single hardest element to manage is self control.
Posted on 9/30/15 at 10:21 am to REB BEER
1 doe per 50 acres and 4 1/2 year old bucks. That is our management plan. Our weights have went up tremendously and our fawn recruitment has went up as well, we see way more does now with twins than ever before. This is year 8 in our program. We went from seeing almost no rut to a hard defined rut.
Posted on 9/30/15 at 10:38 am to biggsc
quote:
what is the recommended age of a deer to kill?
You aren't going to be able to tell a bunch of dog hunters "only shoot 4.5 yr old deer." You need to encourage them to not shoot young deer, even though they are 6 pts. Every young buck you let walk gives you a greater chance every year of killing an older deer year after year.
Posted on 9/30/15 at 10:45 am to tenfoe
Agree and if you want some venison, kill as many does that you want
Posted on 9/30/15 at 12:39 pm to biggsc
quote:
1. We need to let the bucks grow and let their antlers outside the ears and be at least 3-4 years old
Aging a buck in the field is a lot harder than most think. Shooting an 8 point outside the ears will kill your 2 and 3 yr olds with potential
quote:Get rid of the deer drives. Do you want to manage for trophies or fill the freezer? If you have people in the club that just crave shooting something, invest in a skeet thrower
2. We still do deer drives with dogs and do 6 points or better
quote:Management cost money. If it means paying more per person to cut down on members or picking up more acreage. Not sure what the habitat there is but controlling deer numbers is more about making sure there is adequate nutrition.
3. Too many people in our hunting club.
quote:Can be both if everybody is on the same page about what you are trying to do. biggest problem I see is people feel that if they paid X amount of dollars to hunt they are going to bring something home. You have to be willing to invest the money and patience for 3-5 years before seeing results
4. Need to be a trophy hunting club and not a social club
Posted on 9/30/15 at 1:02 pm to biggsc
Only managing I do is, somehow managing how to get all that meat in the freezer, amirite?! 'Murica
Posted on 9/30/15 at 1:04 pm to 4X4DEMON
My family has 3,200+ acres
Posted on 9/30/15 at 1:35 pm to biggsc
The big question is are those that make the decisions on your lease in agreement with your ideas? If so you can go forward, however if EVERYONE that is family/makes decisions on the land isn't on board you will have family that hate each other in a few years over a Freakin' deer.
Keep in mind not everyone wants trophy deer, some people actually could care less about giant deer and want the social aspect and some venison for the table and that's it. The key is figuring out what everyone that matters in your club wants, setting it up and sticking with it.
If you establish a $1000 fine for shooting a 3 year old buck and don't enforce it what good does it do? If you piss enough people off and they shoot deer and sneak them out what good does it do. Making changes as you are suggesting is a big deal make sure you know what you are getting into before making changes.
As an FYI I'm in three clubs, one is it's brown it's down, the other is 130" or better, and the other is my farm in IL where if it's not 150" or better and you shoot it you NEVER get invited back. I've been in your shoes, I enjoy all three places a lot it's just all about what you and those that will continue to hunt the land want.
Keep in mind not everyone wants trophy deer, some people actually could care less about giant deer and want the social aspect and some venison for the table and that's it. The key is figuring out what everyone that matters in your club wants, setting it up and sticking with it.
If you establish a $1000 fine for shooting a 3 year old buck and don't enforce it what good does it do? If you piss enough people off and they shoot deer and sneak them out what good does it do. Making changes as you are suggesting is a big deal make sure you know what you are getting into before making changes.
As an FYI I'm in three clubs, one is it's brown it's down, the other is 130" or better, and the other is my farm in IL where if it's not 150" or better and you shoot it you NEVER get invited back. I've been in your shoes, I enjoy all three places a lot it's just all about what you and those that will continue to hunt the land want.
Posted on 9/30/15 at 5:18 pm to Da Hammer
Bucks get killed for two reasons where I hunt (although I don't make it there much anymore), to cull a very bad genetic line, or to hang on the wall. Most have shot decent deer, so people only shoot something really worth paying for the mount. It's led to 120-130 class deer being shot. Not tons of deer, but quality. My cousin has 300 acres for himself (and his friends) that is mostly pasture, and the amount of huge deer taken off of what amounts to about 75 acres of woods is incredible. No one around hunts, and he's very picky.
We used to do DMAP and had doe tags before Louisiana had a tag program. They'd review your property and a lot so many tags to create the best population. We could never fill all the tags. People didn't want does enough. I think that just shows that people aren't willing to shoot enough does to control the population.
I personally am not a trophy hunter. So I just stick to the does. Got no reason to shoot a 3 year old 6 point, so let it grow for the guy that cares about that.
We used to do DMAP and had doe tags before Louisiana had a tag program. They'd review your property and a lot so many tags to create the best population. We could never fill all the tags. People didn't want does enough. I think that just shows that people aren't willing to shoot enough does to control the population.
I personally am not a trophy hunter. So I just stick to the does. Got no reason to shoot a 3 year old 6 point, so let it grow for the guy that cares about that.
Posted on 9/30/15 at 9:19 pm to REB BEER
quote:
To grow big bucks, the single hardest element to manage is self control.
This is an issue on my club. Last year was my first year and the club's second.
2400 acres, 11 members
"Supposed" to shoot 130"+ 8pt, 140"+ 10pt
We had a fella shoot 3 bucks last year. Two of which were 110-120" and the other was his cull buck, that we've never seen a pic of.
One issue with him and a few others is even with horns in hand, they add extra inches by measuring halfway into the main beam vs the top of the beam. They were adding about 10" extra on the deer (both 8pt).
When I was saying less than 120, he and his buddy basically said I was crazy and green scored him at 125, which was 8-10" too much.
Posted on 9/30/15 at 10:31 pm to Volt
What we do
Most important is do not ever shoot young bucks. Culling is a term meat hunters use to justify shooting a young deer. It does work on controlled high fence places
Second is provide your deer with adequate nutrition. Supplemental feeding through food plots and protein.
Third is get on a quality program that will allow you to thin the does and get buck to doe ratio correct.
Last is never ever shoot young bucks.
Most important is do not ever shoot young bucks. Culling is a term meat hunters use to justify shooting a young deer. It does work on controlled high fence places
Second is provide your deer with adequate nutrition. Supplemental feeding through food plots and protein.
Third is get on a quality program that will allow you to thin the does and get buck to doe ratio correct.
Last is never ever shoot young bucks.
Posted on 9/30/15 at 10:49 pm to bushwacker
Shoot does and mature deer. Pretty simple. I'll admit I don't shoot does on my stands though, we don't have high numbers, I just keep feeding to keep them around, when they go in heat big boy usually shows up
Posted on 10/1/15 at 5:36 am to Dlab2013
Yeah, but an overpopulation of does makes it easy for the big boys to mate. He doesn't have to travel as much exposing himself to be shot. At least that's a theory.
And in regards to culling. You shouldn't kill a 1 1/2 year old spike. But you should probadly take the 4 1/2 year old cow horn spike out of the breeding pool. There's maybe 1 real cull deer every 3 years on about 1000 acres where I grew up hunting. Now when friends and family go to a ranch in Texas on a million acres shooting 160+ class deer, there are tons of culls. The culls are 130 class, but the guides don't want them breeding. But that's just an insane place.
And in regards to culling. You shouldn't kill a 1 1/2 year old spike. But you should probadly take the 4 1/2 year old cow horn spike out of the breeding pool. There's maybe 1 real cull deer every 3 years on about 1000 acres where I grew up hunting. Now when friends and family go to a ranch in Texas on a million acres shooting 160+ class deer, there are tons of culls. The culls are 130 class, but the guides don't want them breeding. But that's just an insane place.
Posted on 10/1/15 at 9:22 am to biggsc
We are on Texas MLD level 3
that's a good start, but go with 4.5 minimum
I'd stop these, you'll kill too many young bucks. "Point" rules are useless. I have a 1.5 year old 10 point coming to a feeder everyday. He still has at least 3 years to eat my corn before he gets shot.
that's a problem that is easily solved.
you're gonna need to do a lot of work then, but it can be done
quote:
1. We need to let the bucks grow and let their antlers outside the ears and be at least 3-4 years old
that's a good start, but go with 4.5 minimum
quote:
2. We still do deer drives with dogs and do 6 points or better
I'd stop these, you'll kill too many young bucks. "Point" rules are useless. I have a 1.5 year old 10 point coming to a feeder everyday. He still has at least 3 years to eat my corn before he gets shot.
quote:
3. Too many people in our hunting club.
that's a problem that is easily solved.
quote:
4. Need to be a trophy hunting club and not a social club
you're gonna need to do a lot of work then, but it can be done
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