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CCW......cocked and locked. Is it safe?

Posted on 1/20/16 at 9:14 pm
Posted by ctiger69
Member since May 2005
30616 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 9:14 pm
I'm getting ready to get my CCW. I have decided I like the Sig 938. Here is the link for those who are not familiar with this gun. It is single action. From my understanding so are 1911 guns and I know the 1911 is a popular gun here on this board.

LINK

So I love how small this gun is. It is one of the smallest I could find in the 9mm caliber. It is constructed mostly of metal which absorbs much of the recoil unlike other small 9mms like the Beretta Nano which is very snappy. But the Sig 938 is single action only which concerns me. I have been told when carrying the gun needs to be cocked. With the hammer cocked back it is just in the back of my mind that if the hammer falls the gun will go off while i'm carrying it. The gun has a safety and a 8lb trigger pull which is a plus for me. Even with this my paranoia is about the hammer accidentally falling and the gun firing.



So how safe is it to be cocked and locked? Anybody here understand the mechanics of a gun that is cocked with the safety on? Can the gun accidentally fire? What do the 1911 people say?
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
134865 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 9:20 pm to
Get a good holster and you'll be fine. Seems like the hammer would be just one more thing to get hung up when you're trying to engage a threat, though.
Posted by Bruneaux
Thibodaux, La
Member since Aug 2015
618 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 9:20 pm to
There is always a chance, that being said, I've gone 15+ years before carrying with one in the chamber and never had a misfire.

I'm sure there are a ton of other posters on this board that have been carrying a lot longer without an incident, but you just gotta be careful and use good judgement.
Posted by ChatRabbit77
Baton Rouge
Member since May 2013
5861 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 9:22 pm to
quote:

So how safe is it to be cocked and locked? Anybody here understand the mechanics of a gun that is cocked with the safety on? Can the gun accidentally fire? What do the 1911 people say?

Always cocked and locked with safety on. Buy a quality holster and you are good to go. If the hammer fell with no manipulation of your finger on the trigger, you would be a millionaire from the lawsuit Sig would face. Just treat it like any gun, don't pull the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
Posted by RATeamWannabe
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2009
25948 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 9:26 pm to
quote:

So how safe is it to be cocked and locked? Anybody here understand the mechanics of a gun that is cocked with the safety on? Can the gun accidentally fire? What do the 1911 people say?


It's not safe to carry if its not cocked and locked.

Its also not safe to carry if you arent comfortable enough with your weapon to carry cocked and locked. Practice more.
Posted by armytiger16
Member since Oct 2010
563 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 9:42 pm to
I'm of the opinion not to have it cocked and loaded. Maybe the army got to me with being terrified of breaking the rules of engagement but I don't feel threatened enough for that. If I'm rolling through the hood then that's different. I feel conifedent in recognizing a threat though.
Posted by fed1811
Member since Jan 2015
124 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 9:44 pm to
Should have gone striker fired, safety off showing the red.

If you draw, it's showtime.

Just make sure to get in plenty of practice drawing an unloaded weapon in your house and disengaging the safety. The absolute worst outcome is you failing to practice your draw and one day it's showtime, you draw and squeeze that trigger only to realize there is no bang because the safety is on...
Posted by kengel2
Team Gun
Member since Mar 2004
30795 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 9:44 pm to
Do you put gas in your car?
Posted by ctiger69
Member since May 2005
30616 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 9:45 pm to
I forgot to mention that I plan on getting a pocket holster and carrying it that way.


Does this make a difference?
Posted by TigerOnThe Hill
Springhill, LA
Member since Sep 2008
6813 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 9:49 pm to
ctiger69,
I've got 2 1911's that are part of my cc rotation, but I don't have a Sig 938. The 1911 is a very safe action. Unlike the 1911, the 938 does not have a grip safety. I don't know why Sig's specs call for such a heavy trigger pull; trigger pulls on SA handguns are usually in the 4# range. I wouldn't have any concerns carrying the 938, as long as it was IWB or OWB and as long as I'm comfortable and well-trained w/ the manual of arms for 1911 type guns. Learning the MOA will take more training than w/ a striker fired gun since you have the extra step of disengaging the safety. No one worries to any significant degree about a "cocked and can't see a lock" striker-fired gun"going off" even though there's no external safety lever and the trigger pull will be lighter than your 938; the difference is one can SEE the cocked hammer of a 1911 type gun, but not that of the striker fired gun.

Although there are a lot of folks here who like the Sig 238 (and presumably the 938, as well) for pocket carry, I'm not one. For pocket carry, I like the gun to be smooth w/o external safeties, external hammers and beavertails to catch on clothing during the draw; I also worry about the external safety becoming disengaged while in the pocket.

If you can handle the 938 adequately well, I'd say to go for it, as long as you have a good holster (one w/ side protection to protect the safety, see my pic below). Get a good belt designed for carrying a holster, as well. Some who carry 1911 type guns don't like ambidextrous safeties for concern the safety on the outside might be disengaged by clothing and such. If you know someone w/ a 938, borrow it one day and carry it around inside your waistband one day, unloaded and w/ the safety on; you'll find out it's quite safe. And yes, the 938 should be carried cocked and locked. If you're uncomfortable carrying it like that, get a different gun.
This post was edited on 1/23/16 at 8:55 am
Posted by dawg23
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Jul 2011
5065 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 9:52 pm to
quote:

I'm of the opinion not to have it cocked and loaded. Maybe the army got to me with being terrified of breaking the rules of engagement
The US Army began issuing the Colt 1911 - which is always carried with a round in the chamber & the hammer cocked -- in 1911. Some military personnel still carry one.

If I were the OP I'd be more concerned about the difficulty of shooting a very small 9mm pistol, the rather small (compared to a 1911) thumb safety and the low capacity of that weapon.
Posted by TigerOnThe Hill
Springhill, LA
Member since Sep 2008
6813 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 9:59 pm to
quote:

I forgot to mention that I plan on getting a pocket holster and carrying it that way.

As I mentioned above, I'm not a fan of the 938 for pocket carry. If using a 9mm for pocket carry, I'd suggest one w/ a longer double action only trigger, such as the Kahr series (especially the CM9) or Ruger LC9. I pocket carry a Kel-Tec PF9, but not everyone here's a fan of KT's. In addition, at 16 oz, the 938 is starting to get heavy for pocket carry. If I were going to buy a single stack 9mm that I wanted to be able to pocket carry, I'd get a Kahr CM9.
Posted by Bruneaux
Thibodaux, La
Member since Aug 2015
618 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:04 pm to
btw, I forgot to mention my daily carry is a p938


every now and then I find that I knock the thumb safety down, just something to consider

Posted by armytiger16
Member since Oct 2010
563 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:13 pm to
quote:

The US Army began issuing the Colt 1911 - which is always carried with a round in the chamber & the hammer cocked -- in 1911. Some military personnel still carry one.


A very small and unique percentage. Not sure what your point is here.

I agree with the statement on a small pistol but maybe for different reasons. I have large hands and hate shooting a small gun. I don't like handguns because of their inaccuracies but they are necessary.

Train and practice whatever you shoot and you should know that you can be effective with a weapon if you are carrying it.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89551 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:28 pm to
quote:

I have been told when carrying the gun needs to be cocked. With the hammer cocked back it is just in the back of my mind that if the hammer falls the gun will go off while i'm carrying it.


I don't know what to tell you - you could have gotten a Sig P239 and kept the hammer down on a loaded chamber. No safety, you just draw and fire.

The 1911 system was/is a work of art, designed by one of the true geniuses in firearms history. But, at the end of the day, you have to be smarter than the firearm. Locked and cocked is the preferred method of carrying "at the ready" for a shite ton of good reasons.

If you're that concerned about it trade it for a P239. I PROMISE you won't be disappointed - I've now owned about 1 of every class of Sig Classic pistol, except the P239 and I expect to add one of those in the next year or 2.

The SA only pistols are wonderful. They are also obsolete.

Posted by ctiger69
Member since May 2005
30616 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 10:57 pm to
Thanks for the advice.

Posted by Riseupfromtherubble
You'll Never Walk Alone
Member since Jun 2011
38378 posts
Posted on 1/20/16 at 11:14 pm to
938 has been my edc for over a year now. I trust my life with it. I'm more apt to carry a gun that's comfortable to carry and only holds 7 than I am to carry a 15+1 that's uncomfortable.

Some on this board need to realize there's no black and white for carry guns. Yea, 15 rounds in a big gun is nice. It's not nice to carry for everyone.
Posted by ninthward
Boston, MA
Member since May 2007
20419 posts
Posted on 1/21/16 at 12:21 am to
1911 has two safeties that need to be 'off' to fire, condition 1 is how I always carry mine.
Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
11893 posts
Posted on 1/21/16 at 9:06 am to
quote:

I'm of the opinion not to have it cocked and loaded. Maybe the army got to me with being terrified of breaking the rules of engagement but I don't feel threatened enough for that. If I'm rolling through the hood then that's different. I feel conifedent in recognizing a threat though.


You're fixated on the wrong point here.

The issue isn't whether or not you'll have TIME to disengage the safety or rack the slide.

The issue is whether or not you will have both hands available to get the gun into a firing condition.

If you ever have to draw your gun, you will be so dumped with adrenaline that everything will be automatic. The time a semi automatic pistol will malfunction more than any (statistically speaking) is when you are manually loading that first round. Why add extra complexity to your draw? If you don't train with a complex system in place, it isn't a question of whether or not you will remember to get your gun in a firing condition. You WILL forget.

There are no rules of engagement for concealed carry so you might as well stack the deck in your favor.
Posted by KingRanch
The Ranch
Member since Mar 2012
61606 posts
Posted on 1/21/16 at 9:14 am to
I carry a 1911 everyday for the last ten years.

It's never once accidentally fired. I'm confident in saying that it won't fire unless I drop the safety off and pull the trigger.
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