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Boat/prop max speed type question
Posted on 5/31/17 at 11:17 am
Posted on 5/31/17 at 11:17 am
There's a performance type thing on the Mercury site for a Mako 18 LTS. With a 4 blade Trophy Plus 17 they got top speed of 45.7 mph @ 6350 with a 115 Pro XS 4 stroke.
Would one be able to get closer to 50 mph with a little more pitch at lower rpm?
Would one be able to get closer to 50 mph with a little more pitch at lower rpm?
Posted on 5/31/17 at 11:32 am to AlxTgr
Bookmarked. I don't have an answer but I have the same question.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 11:42 am to DonChowder
Unlikely because the increase pitch would lower rpms. The only as to get more speed is to get more lift. Most bay boats just don't lift enough to make a huge difference esp with less than a 200 on the transom. Bass boat is another story.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 11:47 am to iron banks
More pitch means bigger bite, less RPM's so less speed.
In general, a four blade prop grabs more so will be a slower prop.
Id try a 3 blade'r.
Pitch wise Im only familiar with the bigger block props which are usually 3 blade'rs.
In general, a four blade prop grabs more so will be a slower prop.
Id try a 3 blade'r.
Pitch wise Im only familiar with the bigger block props which are usually 3 blade'rs.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 11:47 am to AlxTgr
6350 is already hot. If you lower the pitch, you'd be putting a lot of strain on your engine if you dropped the hammer.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 11:54 am to Palo Gaucho
Top end speed verses full performance thru full range of RPM's should be the way to prop out your boat. You need to find out your avg boat load and then go from there to find the best prop over all.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 11:57 am to AlxTgr
I mean, pretty sure you can make assumptions and just calculate it.
I'm rusty, but I'm assuming with the 17" pitch prop, you get
>17/12= 1.42' advancement per revolution at 100% efficiency.
>At 6350 RPM, that's 9017' per minute or 1.71 miles per minute
>1.71*60= 102.5 MPH.
>So that must be a prop efficiency of (45.7/102.5=) 44.6%.
Working backwards, assuming same prop efficiency (which is obviously not the case),
>50mph/.446= 112.1 MPH at 100% efficiency
>112.1/60= 1.87 miles per minute-> 9873.6' per minute
>9873.6/6350=1.55'
>1.55*12= 18.6" pitch.
So I'm rough calculating that you would need 18.6" of pitch to hit 50 mph at 6350 RPM. To do it at lower RPM, you will obviously need more pitch than that.
I don't really know why I did this as it's not reality in practice, I was bored. Not even sure I'm calculating it correctly. Just going off of some info I remember in the past, but it's been a long time since I've looked at this stuff. Plus it's only a small piece of the pie. That extra ~2" of pitch is going to bog down the motor and not allow it to ever hit the 6350. Your hole shot is going to suck. Also, the efficiency is not going to be the same (and 45% efficiency doesn't sound right, so I may be doing something wayyyyy off). It really does take trial and error, and you can just hope you can find some data from other people who did the trial and error for you.
I'm rusty, but I'm assuming with the 17" pitch prop, you get
>17/12= 1.42' advancement per revolution at 100% efficiency.
>At 6350 RPM, that's 9017' per minute or 1.71 miles per minute
>1.71*60= 102.5 MPH.
>So that must be a prop efficiency of (45.7/102.5=) 44.6%.
Working backwards, assuming same prop efficiency (which is obviously not the case),
>50mph/.446= 112.1 MPH at 100% efficiency
>112.1/60= 1.87 miles per minute-> 9873.6' per minute
>9873.6/6350=1.55'
>1.55*12= 18.6" pitch.
So I'm rough calculating that you would need 18.6" of pitch to hit 50 mph at 6350 RPM. To do it at lower RPM, you will obviously need more pitch than that.
I don't really know why I did this as it's not reality in practice, I was bored. Not even sure I'm calculating it correctly. Just going off of some info I remember in the past, but it's been a long time since I've looked at this stuff. Plus it's only a small piece of the pie. That extra ~2" of pitch is going to bog down the motor and not allow it to ever hit the 6350. Your hole shot is going to suck. Also, the efficiency is not going to be the same (and 45% efficiency doesn't sound right, so I may be doing something wayyyyy off). It really does take trial and error, and you can just hope you can find some data from other people who did the trial and error for you.
This post was edited on 5/31/17 at 11:59 am
Posted on 5/31/17 at 12:03 pm to AlxTgr
It's not just pitch you will need to adjust. It is also prop diameter.
6350 is pretty high, but honestly that might be in the prime HP band for that motor.
If you increase the diameter and pitch of your prop and decrease your RPMs, it is feasible to increase speed. You'd probably need to raise the motor a bit too to allow more boat out of the water at top speed. Your hole shot will suffer though -- not sure if that's what you want to do in a bay boat?
6350 is pretty high, but honestly that might be in the prime HP band for that motor.
If you increase the diameter and pitch of your prop and decrease your RPMs, it is feasible to increase speed. You'd probably need to raise the motor a bit too to allow more boat out of the water at top speed. Your hole shot will suffer though -- not sure if that's what you want to do in a bay boat?
Posted on 5/31/17 at 12:19 pm to Floating Change Up
pitch up 2... 6350 should drop down to about 5950 to 5900rpm, and if you stay same speed and drop rpm's raise dat motor up a little at a time till you get dat rpms back up and you'll increase dat speed. just watch you water pic up ports. may need to tape off top 2 if you get too high.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 1:09 pm to Boat Motor Bandit
quote:This is what I was thinking, but I knew many here know way more about this than i do.
pitch up 2... 6350 should drop down to about 5950 to 5900rpm, and if you stay same speed and drop rpm's raise dat motor up a little at a time till you get dat rpms back up and you'll increase dat speed. just watch you water pic up ports. may need to tape off top 2 if you get too high.
quote:
That extra ~2" of pitch is going to bog down the motor and not allow it to ever hit the 6350. Your hole shot is going to suck.
See, I don't agree with this at all. Unless it's engine specific and especially to this one, I have had, and known of many more, boats that do just fine at 5,200 to 5,500.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 1:22 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
quote:That extra ~2" of pitch is going to bog down the motor and not allow it to ever hit the 6350. Your hole shot is going to suck. See, I don't agree with this at all. Unless it's engine specific and especially to this one, I have had, and known of many more, boats that do just fine at 5,200 to 5,500.
Well, technically that is bogging it down from 6350 to 5500 (which is where I was WOT with my boat and isn't a bad thing. Just lower than what you got before). And at 5500 RPM with that ~19" pitch prop, you are going to be less than the 50 MPH you were looking for.
Only reason I'd think the hole shot is going to suck is that I'm sure they did some fine tuning to get overall performance in the original example. They didn't just shoot for 47.5 mph and screw all other performance (hole shot, blow out, etc). So adding 2" of pitch (all other things kept the same) is probably going to have a decent affect on your hole shot.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 1:25 pm to KG6
Has anybody in this thread seen the power curve for that engine? The worst thing you can do (when you have a rev limiter) is overwheel.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 1:25 pm to AlxTgr
Its really not rocket science as some figure. Trial and error gets you there with prop selection. I personally like set back as an option as well when picking props but that's another variable that has effect on boat performance at the fulcrum point too. If that nose isn't high out the water and you not up on the back pad i'd consider looking into it as well to help performance. just fyi
Posted on 5/31/17 at 1:34 pm to Boat Motor Bandit
I've seen people spen tons of money looking for speed out of a boat. Setup on the boat can make a huge difference beyond what horsepower can do. X-dimension , setback, trim tabs, weight, and most importantly hull design will have the biggest things to do with speed.
If those are not right you are wasting your time and money with props and horsepower. Other than the prop the entire lower unit is nothing but a big drag in the water. On a lot of go fast boats/bass boats the x-dimension is basically even with or slightly above the deepest part of the transom.
If those are not right you are wasting your time and money with props and horsepower. Other than the prop the entire lower unit is nothing but a big drag in the water. On a lot of go fast boats/bass boats the x-dimension is basically even with or slightly above the deepest part of the transom.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 2:41 pm to Boat Motor Bandit
quote:Yeah, i just thought some here would know just by looking at the numbers. I was shocked at that high RPM, and just thought there would be room for more prop. That was the only test i could find.
Its really not rocket science as some figure. Trial and error gets you there with prop selection.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 3:01 pm to AlxTgr
They should publish a WOT operating range for the engine, meaning the biggest prop you can swing is the one that puts you at the lowest allowable WOT RPM. You likely have some wiggle room there, but if you overwheel you'll significantly accelerate engine wear.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 3:27 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Agree w what others have said on props.
BUT what you also have to consider is the load. They test those boats w low fuel, no trolling motor, or extra batteries, no ice chest full of stuff and usually only 1 person.
BUT what you also have to consider is the load. They test those boats w low fuel, no trolling motor, or extra batteries, no ice chest full of stuff and usually only 1 person.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 3:29 pm to AlxTgr
Call Mercury and talk to an engineer. They have to have a tech line.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 3:45 pm to Mung
Yeah, he may be able to tell me tricks to get a proper speed out of that rig. Like 65.
Posted on 5/31/17 at 3:54 pm to AlxTgr
I think I recently mentioned it in another thread. I talked to a powertech prop engineer about my boat (Ranger Banshee flats boat that I was trying to squeeze a little more out of a 4 stroke 60). I probably chatted with that guy for about 45 minutes. Really nice guy. I wish I knew his name to pass on. Even he will tell you that it's far to complicated to spit out an exact answer, but with their experience, he can put you in a 5 MPH range of where you will likely be. He was immediately familiar with my boat and the 4 stroke 60. He spat off figures that were exactly where I already was and said that's the best he could think of. We spent the rest of the time looking at options to help hole shot in shallow water, blow outs on turns, etc.. Was a really educational call.
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