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Would it have been better if Germany would have won WW1? The First One.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:11 am
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:11 am
I've been relistening to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History: Blueprint for Armageddon (fascinating)
And he floats the idea that had Germany won early into the war, it might have been better for civilization overall.
Think about it.
Had the French and British not rallied for the Battle of the Marne and stopped the German advance (which some say was a fluke), The German sledgehammer falls on Paris. France surrenders, Britain Surrenders, German troops go to the Ostfront and Russia surrenders.
The unrestricted submarine warfare never happens. The trench warfare doesn't claim millions of lives.
No poison gas. Possibly No Russian Revolution.
Hitler is never fundamentally transformed. Stalin doesn't come to power.
Maybe Germany expands its territory some, but I doubt we see a completely conquered Europe. Just a land shuffle like all the other wars.
No harsh reparations on Germany. No depression. No WW2.
Generations of men aren't wiped out.
None of this
Forests aren't turned to splinters.
The Middle East is still under Ottoman control, so maybe the tribalism doesn't turn the region into such a hotbed.
The changes are endless.
So what does the OT think? Would a quick German victory have been preferable to the reality we know of a prolonged Allied victory?
And he floats the idea that had Germany won early into the war, it might have been better for civilization overall.
Think about it.
Had the French and British not rallied for the Battle of the Marne and stopped the German advance (which some say was a fluke), The German sledgehammer falls on Paris. France surrenders, Britain Surrenders, German troops go to the Ostfront and Russia surrenders.
The unrestricted submarine warfare never happens. The trench warfare doesn't claim millions of lives.
No poison gas. Possibly No Russian Revolution.
Hitler is never fundamentally transformed. Stalin doesn't come to power.
Maybe Germany expands its territory some, but I doubt we see a completely conquered Europe. Just a land shuffle like all the other wars.
No harsh reparations on Germany. No depression. No WW2.
Generations of men aren't wiped out.
None of this
Forests aren't turned to splinters.
The Middle East is still under Ottoman control, so maybe the tribalism doesn't turn the region into such a hotbed.
The changes are endless.
So what does the OT think? Would a quick German victory have been preferable to the reality we know of a prolonged Allied victory?
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 10:36 am
37
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:14 am to fr33manator
It's a very compelling argument with some pretty valid points, IMO. I love "alternate history" talk. I think I'll need to check this out. 
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:14 am to fr33manator
Doubtful
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:15 am to fr33manator
Probably not.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:16 am to fr33manator
There is no guarantee that a German win doesn't create an alternative Hitler from a conquered nation.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:16 am to Tiger Ryno
What real good did an allied victory in WW1 bring other than a destabilized Middle East, Communist Russia, more effective means of slaughtering people by the score, and eventually WW2?
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:17 am to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
There is no guarantee that a German win doesn't create an alternative Hitler from a conquered nation.
This.
For all we know, Germany could have imposed their own "Treaty of Versailles" on France and France could have turned into the Nazi terror state of the 1930s and 1940s.
ETA: Imagine if Germany imposed a Brest-Litovsk on the western Allies...
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 10:20 am
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:17 am to fr33manator
I just listened to these recently for a 2nd time start to finish.
Great 'what if' questions raised.
Great 'what if' questions raised.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:18 am to GetCocky11
quote:
France could have turned into the Nazi terror state of the 1930s and 1940s.
they'd be too afraid of getting their white flag dirty
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:18 am to fr33manator
We would've been better off if we didn't try to punish them for it like we did. That's for sure.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:18 am to fr33manator
You assume that nothing will change from that point on. The progression of the human has and always will bring on change , so if it didn't happen in WW1 it would have happened somewhere else down the line.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:18 am to fr33manator
quote:US became a world economic and military power
What real good did an allied victory in WW1 bring other than a destabilized Middle East, Communist Russia, more effective means of slaughtering people by the score, and eventually WW2?
that doesn't happen without WW1
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:18 am to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
There is no guarantee that a German win doesn't create an alternative Hitler from a conquered nation.
A quick win by Germany means that there is far less cost to pay in reparations, even if Germany chose to be as harsh as the Allies did.
The Christmas truce of 1914
The animosity and hate didn't exist as harshly before the years of portracted suffering and misery.
Where do you see that making the next Hitler?
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 10:21 am
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:19 am to fr33manator
The Ottoman empire was on the decline anyway so who knows how long it would've lasted even if Germany won WWI.
Also, if Germany wins, you can assume that means no WWII, which means that the USA doesn't become such a world superpower.
Also, if Germany wins, you can assume that means no WWII, which means that the USA doesn't become such a world superpower.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:19 am to OWLFAN86
quote:
US became a world economic and military power
that doesn't happen without WW1
It already was, it simply didn't project beyond the Western Hemisphere.
American industrial output was already the world's envy.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:20 am to fr33manator
I dunno...but I kinda like where the United States headed BECAUSE of WWII. All the scientist that migrated TO the USA. All of the industrialization that came about because of the war. Laws that started to get created. The country came together...Maybe I am selfish, but not sure I would change anything about either of the WW's
This post was edited on 5/9/16 at 10:20 am
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:22 am to OWLFAN86
quote:It was going to happen anyway. The United States is too well situated to not be a major world power.
US became a world economic and military power
that doesn't happen without WW1
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:24 am to fr33manator
what if I didnt eat taco bell last night? I wouldnt of had the mudd butt
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:24 am to StrongBackWeakMind
Imagine, if you will, an American economy whose resources and capital have been allocated entirely according to consumer choices - not heavily affected by military spending or the Great Society. Limited foreign incursions, simply only whipping up on Central and South America when it suits our interests.
This would be the America sans World Wars.
This would be the America sans World Wars.
Posted on 5/9/16 at 10:25 am to fr33manator
quote:
A quick win by Germany means that there is far less cost to pay in reparations, even if Germany chose to be as harsh as the Allies did. Where do you see that making the next Hitler?
You seem to imply that since you know how things went down in actual history, that by changing a few variables you can predict what would happen in an alternative. We are not omniscient. We have no idea what butterfly effect of a German win would do to continental Europe.
The Germans weren't the only people capable of lashing out post defeat. We have no idea how certain powder kegs of that continent would have evolved. We have no idea if a German win would have delayed the inevitable for Russia. We have no idea what person, who because of how history actually played out, remains unknown to us, who had Germany been victorious, could have showed up in any corner of Europe to bring about massive suffering.
We can't just say "No Hitler, no Stalin, we're good"
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