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Message
The Red Stick Trolley flopped, so let's try a Tram!!!
Posted on 6/27/16 at 10:53 am
Posted on 6/27/16 at 10:53 am
Responding to an area request, CATS launched the Red Stick Trolley at a cost of 500K a year. After roughly a year and a half it is apparent that not nearly enough people rode it to justify the service.
Here is a link to the article:
LINK
I found these paragraphs interesting, and they confirm my opinion on the viability of LSU/Downtown Tram;
We see evidence all around us of the failure of public transportation in our area; yet we grow more and more bold and spend more and more money trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
We did it first with CATS when a taxing district was created to practically double their budget, and now by pushing a 10 million dollar bond issue to design a Tram before they study if it will be used much.
We live in Baton Rouge, we're not Kansas City,Mo., Houston, Texas or Charlotte, NC.
quote:
Since its launch in January 2015, the service—which ran daily from Southdowns through the Garden District to downtown—has underperformed, even though it was
created in response to interest from Garden District residents who said they wanted it.
Here is a link to the article:
LINK
I found these paragraphs interesting, and they confirm my opinion on the viability of LSU/Downtown Tram;
quote:
Baton Rouge is not alone in its car obsession. In most metro areas of less than 1 million people, between just 1.5% and 2.5% of residents use public transit, according to data from the University of North Carolina at Charlotte.
Researchers aren’t sure why. But they’ve done other studies that show a disconnect between what people say about public transit and what they actually do about it. There’s a support-usage gap rooted in the fact that people believe mass transit has collective benefits that don’t require their personal usage.
We see evidence all around us of the failure of public transportation in our area; yet we grow more and more bold and spend more and more money trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
We did it first with CATS when a taxing district was created to practically double their budget, and now by pushing a 10 million dollar bond issue to design a Tram before they study if it will be used much.
We live in Baton Rouge, we're not Kansas City,Mo., Houston, Texas or Charlotte, NC.
11
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:00 am to doubleb
Same thing happens on these new streetcar lines in N.O.
They don't move people as efficiently as buses and are basically a waste of money, but tourists like to look at them and if you're a property owner by one you benefit from the aesthetic.
But as a public transit option they are not as advertised.
They don't move people as efficiently as buses and are basically a waste of money, but tourists like to look at them and if you're a property owner by one you benefit from the aesthetic.
But as a public transit option they are not as advertised.
This post was edited on 6/27/16 at 11:01 am
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:02 am to doubleb
After moving to NYC, I am pretty convinced it's a cultural thing, and not a supply/demand thing. Short of things getting really bad, SELA will never see a mass transit or even a regional transit- and even then they will just want more roads.
People just are comfortable driving their cars where they want to go rather than sharing it with random people off the street.
People just are comfortable driving their cars where they want to go rather than sharing it with random people off the street.
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:05 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
People just are comfortable driving their cars where they want to go rather than sharing it with random people off the street.
Can you blame us? Have you seen the people here?
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:05 am to doubleb
quote:
Baton Rouge is not alone in its car obsession. In most metro areas of less than 1 million people, between just 1.5% and 2.5% of residents use public transit, according to data from the University of North Carolina at Charlotte.
Researchers aren’t sure why.
BR isnt very pedestrian friendly. If I were to use public transportation to run errands, I would never get anything done.
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:05 am to doubleb
Who is this new idea supposed to be targeting? Aside from football season, who will be regularly using this?
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:05 am to doubleb
People in the south see public transit as something for the poors. Maybe other places see it differently.
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:06 am to MikeBRLA
quote:
Can you blame us? Have you seen the people here?
No, I don't blame you.
Yes, I have spent 26+ years in between BR and NOLA.
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:07 am to Ed Osteen
They think there is going to be some mass amount of people going from LSU to downtown and back.
Go experiment in mid city or the government street stretch.
Go experiment in mid city or the government street stretch.
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:07 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
After moving to NYC, I am pretty convinced it's a cultural thing, and not a supply/demand thing. Short of things getting really bad, SELA will never see a mass transit or even a regional transit- and even then they will just want more roads.
People just are comfortable driving their cars where they want to go rather than sharing it with random people off the street.
Definitely. Northerner in large cities are so accustomed to public transit. The South just wasn't built that way. I've seen very few southern cities do it well. MARTA is about the only one that has been running for a long time.
An old realtor I used moved to Birmingham from Boston. She was telling us the story about when she flew down here to look for housing. They mentioned renting a car at the airport, and she looked at them like they were crazy because she said she'd just take the train or bus. Gets here and neither are really an option, especially to be driving around looking for houses. If I were to fly somewhere up north, I'd rely on the transit system. When I've been to Chicago, NYC, and a few other places, it was so easy and takes you everywhere in the city.
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:09 am to Jones
I think they could be looking to the future when the LSU water campus opens and that stretch of Nicholson is revitalized. I still don't think people will use it but I guess its possible.
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:13 am to Ed Osteen
quote:
Who is this new idea supposed to be targeting? Aside from football season, who will be regularly using this?
The idea is to connect LSU with downtown. So, students could use it to access the bars and restaurants downtown. They would have a "student pass" with a semester rate that parents can pay for.
Also, that corridor with the water campus and all of the developers buying all the property is supposed to be much improved with housing, commercial real estate, office space, restaurants, etc.
This post was edited on 6/27/16 at 11:15 am
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:14 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
The idea is to connect LSU with downtown. So, students could use it to access the bars and restaurants downtown. They would have a "student pass" with a semester rate that parents can pay for.
and they still wont use it
if this mass transit system is made primarily for lsu students, it will fail
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:15 am to doubleb
First of all, this was discussed at length last week.
Second, busses fail because they are slow, unreliable, and share the same lanes with cars thereby making them an absolutely inferior option to owning and driving one's own car in every possible respect absent cost.
Third, population density is key to the success of any mass transit plan. One needs to be able to conveniently walk to and from their starting point, destination, and transit stops. In spread out areas (like most of Baton Rouge) it makes using mass transit a massive pain in the arse only to be endured by those lacking literally any other option.
Forth, mass transit can be useful, but only if it does not suffer from the same restraints as cars and easily connects riders from where they are to where they want to go with minimal delay relative to driving one's own vehicle in minimal traffic conditions. And can save them time in heavy traffic conditions.
Fifth: young people like to be able to go drink at bars without driving due to the dangers with doing so, the inconvenience of finding a dd, the inconsistency and expense of taxi cabs, and threat of dui's. If it's convenient, relatively inexpensive, reliable, and safe, they will use it for their nights out.
This tram connects the two most densely populated areas of town together while running through the third most dense area of town assuming the planned developments take off. It would conveniently serve the largest populations of young drinkers as well as people without cars in the region. If properly designed, it could avoid the issues busses have. It would connect the large parking infrastructure to a massive tourist attraction which lacks parking (LSU).
It's at least worth further inquiry. The bond allows for that by unlocking the next level of studies and federal monies.
Second, busses fail because they are slow, unreliable, and share the same lanes with cars thereby making them an absolutely inferior option to owning and driving one's own car in every possible respect absent cost.
Third, population density is key to the success of any mass transit plan. One needs to be able to conveniently walk to and from their starting point, destination, and transit stops. In spread out areas (like most of Baton Rouge) it makes using mass transit a massive pain in the arse only to be endured by those lacking literally any other option.
Forth, mass transit can be useful, but only if it does not suffer from the same restraints as cars and easily connects riders from where they are to where they want to go with minimal delay relative to driving one's own vehicle in minimal traffic conditions. And can save them time in heavy traffic conditions.
Fifth: young people like to be able to go drink at bars without driving due to the dangers with doing so, the inconvenience of finding a dd, the inconsistency and expense of taxi cabs, and threat of dui's. If it's convenient, relatively inexpensive, reliable, and safe, they will use it for their nights out.
This tram connects the two most densely populated areas of town together while running through the third most dense area of town assuming the planned developments take off. It would conveniently serve the largest populations of young drinkers as well as people without cars in the region. If properly designed, it could avoid the issues busses have. It would connect the large parking infrastructure to a massive tourist attraction which lacks parking (LSU).
It's at least worth further inquiry. The bond allows for that by unlocking the next level of studies and federal monies.
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:19 am to kingbob
Anything stopping on a street named after a president is gonna be a target for criminals. its BR hood law.
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:20 am to TheCaterpillar
Unless things have changed in the last 5 years, LSU students don't really spend too much time downtown. I feel like the people designing these plans have never visited Baton Rouge and just see a college campus needing to be linked with a downtown area. It doesn't really work like that
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:20 am to Jones
quote:
if this mass transit system is made primarily for lsu students, it will fail
Just one portion of it.
And I'm not saying I know its going to be a huge success. There is definitely a lot of risk involved, but I do have some hope that corridor will continue to be gentrified and downtown will continue to improve.
The federal government is giving us a ton of money to help build this and I think injecting money into LSU/Nicholson corridor/downtown is a great idea.
But I understand why people think it’s not.
And I completely disagree that students won’t use it. In college if we had a “free ride” to and from downtown, we 100% would’ve gone more, especially with all those bars they have now. I think every single one of my friends would agree with me.
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:21 am to Ed Osteen
quote:
Unless things have changed in the last 5 years, LSU students don't really spend too much time downtown
Because getting there and coming back sucks. Parking sucks, DUI's are terrible in Baton Rouge, and yes, things have changed a good bit since we were in college 7 years ago.
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:22 am to kingbob
quote:
First of all, this was discussed at length last week.
Second, busses fail because they are slow, unreliable, and share the same lanes with cars thereby making them an absolutely inferior option to owning and driving one's own car in every possible respect absent cost.
Third, population density is key to the success of any mass transit plan. One needs to be able to conveniently walk to and from their starting point, destination, and transit stops. In spread out areas (like most of Baton Rouge) it makes using mass transit a massive pain in the arse only to be endured by those lacking literally any other option.
Forth, mass transit can be useful, but only if it does not suffer from the same restraints as cars and easily connects riders from where they are to where they want to go with minimal delay relative to driving one's own vehicle in minimal traffic conditions. And can save them time in heavy traffic conditions.
Fifth: young people like to be able to go drink at bars without driving due to the dangers with doing so, the inconvenience of finding a dd, the inconsistency and expense of taxi cabs, and threat of dui's. If it's convenient, relatively inexpensive, reliable, and safe, they will use it for their nights out.
This tram connects the two most densely populated areas of town together while running through the third most dense area of town assuming the planned developments take off. It would conveniently serve the largest populations of young drinkers as well as people without cars in the region. If properly designed, it could avoid the issues busses have. It would connect the large parking infrastructure to a massive tourist attraction which lacks parking (LSU).
It's at least worth further inquiry. The bond allows for that by unlocking the next level of studies and federal monies.
Well said.
Posted on 6/27/16 at 11:25 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
Because getting there and coming back sucks. Parking sucks, DUI's are terrible in Baton Rouge, and yes, things have changed a good bit since we were in college 7 years ago.
Could also be that being under 21 downtown without a fake id sucks. Tigerland and the bars around that area cater to underage college students.
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