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re: The Civil War was fought over Slavery
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:49 pm to TheTideMustRoll
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:49 pm to TheTideMustRoll
But wait, wasn't it the democrats who were for Slavery and southern rights.
Maybe we should abolish the democratic party
Maybe we should abolish the democratic party
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:49 pm to Breesus
quote:
By this logic the American Revolution was fought over taxes and the price of tea.
No. By this logic is was about representation. You know, the issue it was explicitly fought over. Just like the explicit driving factor of the civil war was slavery. To say that the civil war had more than solely one reason is not profound. It is a dishonest debate tactic.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:51 pm to Roaad
quote:
Now you can keep all conversations in here.
I'll tell you what you can do: KISS MY REBEL arse.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:51 pm to Peazey
quote:
It is a dishonest debate tactic.
you seem intimately familiar with these.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:55 pm to Peazey
quote:
No where in that quote does it say that Lincoln supported slavery. It is completely and totally irrelevant.
You're right. He didn't openly support slavery. He just publicly supported that idea that white people are and always will be superior, that black and white people could never coexist and that he is a proponent of making sure white people stay superior and dominant. How philanthropic of him.
This post was edited on 1/19/17 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:56 pm to Peazey
quote:
This is a text book example of a strawman argument.
.
Are you saying it's my argument or the OP's?
Posted on 1/19/17 at 2:01 pm to Roaad
If it was fought over slavery, then why weren't the slaves freed until AFTER the war? It was fought over state's rights of which one was slavery... which is a pretty terrible thing to think that you have a right to.
War started - April 1861
Emancipation Proclamation - January 1863
War ended - June 1865
18th Amendment Ratified - December 1865
War started - April 1861
Emancipation Proclamation - January 1863
War ended - June 1865
18th Amendment Ratified - December 1865
Posted on 1/19/17 at 2:04 pm to Tuscaloosa
Funny how you pick out shite like that, but you didn't point out all the instances of prominent Southerners who eschewed slavery; some publicly, but many did so only in their personal communications...
Including none other than the Confederate President, Jefferson Davis - who continually wrote about the fight for State's rights; General Stonewall Jackson - who only purchased slaves after they asked him to; and General Lee - who despised slavery.
Pointing to the issue of slavery and saying "look at this speech" is akin to pointing to the issue of abortion and saying that it was THE only reason that people voted in the 1996 election. You're using flawed sophomoric logic. Would you say that WWII was fought exclusively over the Jews? (Remember, we didn't even know about the holocaust until after we became involved.)
Even "the Great Emancipator" Abraham Lincoln admitted that it wasn't about slavery. He only used it as a false flag to help prevent the French from aiding the South. I won't even get into how his proclamation only "freed" slaves in the South - not the in the North or other territories, or how he wrote that if he could keep slavery in the South he would. In his debates with Douglas he quite often spoke of the superiority of whites.
Furthermore... just how many of those dead men (on both sides) do you think gave their life for the black man?
Slavery in the South was on its way out through natural progression. The issue of slavery had been contested for years. There was no reason to go to war over it. Most people of the time were happy to ignore it until it worked itself out. The War of Northern Aggression only ignited after the US Government (controlled almost entirely by the northern states) began to impose excessive taxes and tariffs on the people of the South.
Including none other than the Confederate President, Jefferson Davis - who continually wrote about the fight for State's rights; General Stonewall Jackson - who only purchased slaves after they asked him to; and General Lee - who despised slavery.
Pointing to the issue of slavery and saying "look at this speech" is akin to pointing to the issue of abortion and saying that it was THE only reason that people voted in the 1996 election. You're using flawed sophomoric logic. Would you say that WWII was fought exclusively over the Jews? (Remember, we didn't even know about the holocaust until after we became involved.)
Even "the Great Emancipator" Abraham Lincoln admitted that it wasn't about slavery. He only used it as a false flag to help prevent the French from aiding the South. I won't even get into how his proclamation only "freed" slaves in the South - not the in the North or other territories, or how he wrote that if he could keep slavery in the South he would. In his debates with Douglas he quite often spoke of the superiority of whites.
Furthermore... just how many of those dead men (on both sides) do you think gave their life for the black man?
Slavery in the South was on its way out through natural progression. The issue of slavery had been contested for years. There was no reason to go to war over it. Most people of the time were happy to ignore it until it worked itself out. The War of Northern Aggression only ignited after the US Government (controlled almost entirely by the northern states) began to impose excessive taxes and tariffs on the people of the South.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 2:04 pm to Peazey
quote:
No. By this logic is was about representation. You know, the issue it was explicitly fought over.
So you belive that if King George would've allowed a couple of representatives from the colonies into the government we never would've had a revolution. Regardless of if those representatives ever got anything done?
Posted on 1/19/17 at 2:04 pm to Landmass
The states rights argument wasn't even used as a primary argument for the justification of secession and war until the war had practically been lost.
Go read those letters from the Commissioners and tell me what was on their mind.
Go read those letters from the Commissioners and tell me what was on their mind.
This post was edited on 1/19/17 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 1/19/17 at 2:08 pm to Breesus
quote:
But don't let actual facts and history get in the way of your ignorant narrative.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 2:08 pm to SlapahoeTribe
quote:
Funny how you pick out shite like that, but you didn't point out all the instances of prominent Southerners who eschewed slavery; some publicly, but many did so only in their personal communications...
I didn't pick out anything. I provided a primary source from the individuals who were pushing for secession and recruiting other states to do the same. It was pretty much solely about slavery.
There's a book by Charles Dew that outlines it all and provides the letters in the back of his book. He set out to prove the war was about States Rights, but found - through his own research of those commissioners and their letters - that he was wrong. The name of the book is Apostles of Disunion. It's a great book.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 2:19 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:
The states rights argument wasn't even used as a primary argument for the justification of secession and war until the war had practically been lost.
Go read those letters from the Commissioners and tell me what was on their mind.
Again, you misquote history. And you seem to have a difficult time admitting anything. Nothing in history is black and white.
Yes, some leaders were explicitly for the keeping of slaves, yes they were wrong for that, and I don't think you'd find many people today who advocate for the return to slavery or that it never should've ended. Overall the war was fought over the expansion and aggression of the federal government into states rights.
The letters from Texas, South Carolina, and Virginia firmly and clearly propose that the fundamental issues are states rights, and the overreaching and obnoxious perversion of the federal government by the current administration and Northern states.
The letter from Mississippi, however, is some of the most insanely ignorant rambling racist dumbass nonsense you could ever read in your life.
This post was edited on 1/19/17 at 2:22 pm
Posted on 1/19/17 at 2:22 pm to Breesus
quote:
Again, you misquote history. And you seem to have a difficult time admitting anything. Nothing in history is black and white.
I haven't quoted, misquoted, or done anything but provide direct quotes from the individuals who led the movement to secession and war themselves. It is they, not I, who frame slavery as the issue so important as to be willing to lose their lives over.
quote:
Yes, some leaders were explicitly for the keeping of slaves
Pretty much every single leader who was responsible for making those decisions - reached their decision based on the idea of keeping the institution of slavery in tact.
quote:
Overall the war was fought over the expansion and aggression of the federal government into states rights.
Fabrication.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 2:36 pm to Tuscaloosa
People who belive in a pure black and white view of the world or that any issue is 100% right or wrong are people who are not worth talking to. All of life exists in the gray area. To think otherwise is to choose ignorance.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 4:28 pm to Landmass
quote:
18th Amendment Ratified - December 1865
I hope you meant 13th Amendment, but the 3 and 8 are pretty far apart on any keyboard or phone that I've seen.
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