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re: The Civil War was fought over Slavery
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:18 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:18 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:Who fired first?
Wrong. The South left the Union over Slavery.
1
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:19 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Again, all reasons the South left the Union. But that does not make it the reason the Union started the war.
Sigh.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:20 pm to Roaad
You mean the War of Northern Aggression.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:20 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:
Slavery was pretty much the sole cause. No sense in playing mental gymnastics about it.
Well, that was the primary reason why the states attempted to leave the union - but the war was meant to preserve said union. Essentially, it was about both the elimination of the spread of slavery (some of the reasons abolitionists were against it might not be palatable to modern sensibilities) and whether or not a state, or group of states, retained the right to dissolve their contract with the federal government.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:22 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:
Silly argument is silly. Without slavery and the threat of abolition, and subsequent secession over slavery - there is no war.
Slavery was pretty much the sole cause. No sense in playing mental gymnastics about it.
Your argument is the one that's silly and requires mental gymnastics to swallow. You would be right in saying the Civil War started over Slavery had the South first left the Union and then followed that up with invading the Union.
But that's not what happened. Instead tehcUniin refused to leave what the South now considered Southern territory. The Inion didn't have to do this. In fact they'd already handed over numerious other forts peacefully. But at Ft. Sumter, at Lincoln's direct order, the Union stood its ground knowing this would lead to war.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:23 pm to Roaad
quote:
Who fired first?
Who refused to leave whatcthe South considered sovereign Southern soil?
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:26 pm to Roaad
The civil war was faught over state rights and federal government power. The state right at issue at the time was slavery. But most major Southern leader agreed that slavery was going to end and black people would be integrated into society eventually. The civil war was most definitely not faught over the ability to keep slaves forever.
Slavery wasn't even a major issue at all for the North until the north needed an easy public cause to rally the people around. Abraham Lincoln said some of the most racist shite I've ever read in my life before he decide to change his mind and create the Emancipation Proclamation. If I showed you some of quotes you'd think it was from a retard in backwoods Mississippi. Many Northern leaders were also slave owners. The provisions for equality and desegregation didn't even apply to the northern states.
But don't let actual facts and history get in the way of your ignorant narrative.
Slavery wasn't even a major issue at all for the North until the north needed an easy public cause to rally the people around. Abraham Lincoln said some of the most racist shite I've ever read in my life before he decide to change his mind and create the Emancipation Proclamation. If I showed you some of quotes you'd think it was from a retard in backwoods Mississippi. Many Northern leaders were also slave owners. The provisions for equality and desegregation didn't even apply to the northern states.
But don't let actual facts and history get in the way of your ignorant narrative.
This post was edited on 1/19/17 at 2:21 pm
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:26 pm to Roaad
I'm going to make a few statements, you guys tell me which are false:
1) Many divisive events occurred in the 1850's which concerned slavery. Examples include The Fugitive Slave Act, Uncle Tom's Cabin, Dred Scott Decision, formation of the Republican party, Brooks attack on Sumner in the Senate, Bleeding Kansas, John Brown's Raid.
2) Lincoln's election was the final,deciding factor that prompted secession.
3) Southerners were convinced that Lincoln intended to end slavery, even though he had never stated as much.
If these things are true, what was a bigger factor over why the Civil War came about than slavery?
1) Many divisive events occurred in the 1850's which concerned slavery. Examples include The Fugitive Slave Act, Uncle Tom's Cabin, Dred Scott Decision, formation of the Republican party, Brooks attack on Sumner in the Senate, Bleeding Kansas, John Brown's Raid.
2) Lincoln's election was the final,deciding factor that prompted secession.
3) Southerners were convinced that Lincoln intended to end slavery, even though he had never stated as much.
If these things are true, what was a bigger factor over why the Civil War came about than slavery?
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:26 pm to Darth_Vader
Slavery is the common denominator in every weirdly phrased, moral high ground you attempt to take.
Slavery.
Without such, there is no secession. Without such, there isn't a single gunshot fired.
Slavery.
The end.
Slavery.
Without such, there is no secession. Without such, there isn't a single gunshot fired.
Slavery.
The end.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:26 pm to Darth_Vader
South Carolinians fired on Fort Sumter before a relief party could assist Major Anderson and his troops. Even prior to this, James Buchanan authorized Federal troops and authorize to retreat from posts where the population was hostile to avoid bloodshed. I am a proud Southerner through and through, but the South firing the first shot of the war was a strategic blunder imo.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:27 pm to Roaad
Slave states didn't want the federal government to have the power to govern each state. These states thought that it should be up to the state to determine whether or not slavery is illegal. So while it was about states rights, slavery was the main issue that caused things to boil over..
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:27 pm to junkfunky
quote:
I haven't been able to figure out where that fits in with the idea that the war was about slavery and nothing else.
This is a text book example of a strawman argument.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:29 pm to OweO
quote:
These states thought that it should be up to the state to determine whether or not slavery is illegal.
The Missouri Compromise was supposedly supposed to settle this issue, but Western expansion made it an even hotter topic for the 1860 election.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:31 pm to Roaad
Who DAFUC cares?? This is why Racism will never die in this country. The war has been over for a long damn time. Who cares if it was over slavery or states rights or the states rights to allow slavery? Slavery is over and the south is doing pretty well now. Just look at college football, the south owns that shite!
Lets talk about reparations. My family is white and didnt come to the U.S. until 1900. So because I am white you want me to pay reparations?? Hell My family at one point where slaves under the feudal system to the nobles of France until the French revolution in the late 1700's. And my other ancestors were Cherokee and walked the trail of tears and had their homes and land taken from them.
sorry for the rant, im just tired of all the slavery talk. The blacks need to let it go and the whites need to know that the south lost and the war is over.
We need to unify as one. We have bigger fish to fry as a nation... rant over
Lets talk about reparations. My family is white and didnt come to the U.S. until 1900. So because I am white you want me to pay reparations?? Hell My family at one point where slaves under the feudal system to the nobles of France until the French revolution in the late 1700's. And my other ancestors were Cherokee and walked the trail of tears and had their homes and land taken from them.
sorry for the rant, im just tired of all the slavery talk. The blacks need to let it go and the whites need to know that the south lost and the war is over.
We need to unify as one. We have bigger fish to fry as a nation... rant over
This post was edited on 1/19/17 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:35 pm to OweO
This is true.
The war was fought over both a principle -- states' rights -- and a concrete issue -- slavery. The South was right in principle, but horribly, horribly wrong on the concrete issue they chose to make their stand over.
Slavery is the crack in the foundation of this country. Even today, 150 years later, it seems like that crack may yet wind up bringing down the entire edifice.
The war was fought over both a principle -- states' rights -- and a concrete issue -- slavery. The South was right in principle, but horribly, horribly wrong on the concrete issue they chose to make their stand over.
Slavery is the crack in the foundation of this country. Even today, 150 years later, it seems like that crack may yet wind up bringing down the entire edifice.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:38 pm to Roaad
Of course it was.
And, at whatever point you can claim, "States' Rights," it was over the "right" of people to own slaves in those states. So, it was still fundamentally over slavery.
There is no issue that would have led to secession and war like slavery at the time. It is silly to think otherwise.
And, at whatever point you can claim, "States' Rights," it was over the "right" of people to own slaves in those states. So, it was still fundamentally over slavery.
There is no issue that would have led to secession and war like slavery at the time. It is silly to think otherwise.
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:38 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:
Without such, there is no secession. Without such, there isn't a single gunshot fired.
Expansion to new territory and the debate about who should have the most power in those territories the state governments or the federal governments is the main reason for the war. The south is and has historically been a region more dedicated to states rights than turning rights over to the federal government.
We still fight this battle today. frick the federal government mingling into the rights of the States.
Here's a fun quote directly from Abraham Lincoln's mouth:
quote:
I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.
This post was edited on 1/19/17 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:41 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
And, at whatever point you can claim, "States' Rights," it was over the "right" of people to own slaves in those states. So, it was still fundamentally over slavery.
By this logic the American Revolution was fought over taxes and the price of tea. It was never about ending a monarchy and forming a democratic Republic. It was just solely based on high taxes.
It wasn't. The leaders in America wanted their own land and their own government. Taxes were the concrete issue to rally around. Government of, for, and by the people was the principle fought over.
Similarly, states rights was the principle fought over. Slavery was the concrete issue.
This post was edited on 1/19/17 at 1:43 pm
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:46 pm to Roaad
Posted on 1/19/17 at 1:47 pm to Breesus
No where in that quote does it say that Lincoln supported slavery. It is completely and totally irrelevant.
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