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Message
re: Proof of Heaven?
Posted on 4/3/16 at 2:07 pm to East Coast Band
Posted on 4/3/16 at 2:07 pm to East Coast Band
St. Thomas Aquinas:
The Existence of God can be proved in five ways.
Argument Analysis of the Five Ways © 2016 Theodore Gracyk
The First Way: Argument from Motion
Our senses prove that some things are in motion.
Things move when potential motion becomes actual motion.
Only an actual motion can convert a potential motion into an actual motion.
Nothing can be at once in both actuality and potentiality in the same respect (i.e., if both actual and potential, it is actual in one respect and potential in another).
Therefore nothing can move itself.
Therefore each thing in motion is moved by something else.
The sequence of motion cannot extend ad infinitum.
Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.
The Second Way: Argument from Efficient Causes
We perceive a series of efficient causes of things in the world.
Nothing exists prior to itself.
Therefore nothing [in the world of things we perceive] is the efficient cause of itself.
If a previous efficient cause does not exist, neither does the thing that results (the effect).
Therefore if the first thing in a series does not exist, nothing in the series exists.
If the series of efficient causes extends ad infinitum into the past, for then there would be no things existing now.
That is plainly false (i.e., there are things existing now that came about through efficient causes).
Therefore efficient causes do not extend ad infinitum into the past.
Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.
The Third Way: Argument from Possibility and Necessity (Reductio argument)
We find in nature things that are possible to be and not to be, that come into being and go out of being i.e., contingent beings.
Assume that every being is a contingent being.
For each contingent being, there is a time it does not exist.
Therefore it is impossible for these always to exist.
Therefore there could have been a time when no things existed.
Therefore at that time there would have been nothing to bring the currently existing contingent beings into existence.
Therefore, nothing would be in existence now.
We have reached an absurd result from assuming that every being is a contingent being.
Therefore not every being is a contingent being.
Therefore some being exists of its own necessity, and does not receive its existence from another being, but rather causes them. This all men speak of as God.
The Fourth Way: Argument from Gradation of Being
There is a gradation to be found in things: some are better or worse than others.
Predications of degree require reference to the “uttermost” case (e.g., a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest).
The maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus.
Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.
The Fifth Way: Argument from Design
We see that natural bodies work toward some goal, and do not do so by chance.
Most natural things lack knowledge.
But as an arrow reaches its target because it is directed by an archer, what lacks intelligence achieves goals by being directed by something intelligent.
Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God.
The Existence of God can be proved in five ways.
Argument Analysis of the Five Ways © 2016 Theodore Gracyk
The First Way: Argument from Motion
Our senses prove that some things are in motion.
Things move when potential motion becomes actual motion.
Only an actual motion can convert a potential motion into an actual motion.
Nothing can be at once in both actuality and potentiality in the same respect (i.e., if both actual and potential, it is actual in one respect and potential in another).
Therefore nothing can move itself.
Therefore each thing in motion is moved by something else.
The sequence of motion cannot extend ad infinitum.
Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.
The Second Way: Argument from Efficient Causes
We perceive a series of efficient causes of things in the world.
Nothing exists prior to itself.
Therefore nothing [in the world of things we perceive] is the efficient cause of itself.
If a previous efficient cause does not exist, neither does the thing that results (the effect).
Therefore if the first thing in a series does not exist, nothing in the series exists.
If the series of efficient causes extends ad infinitum into the past, for then there would be no things existing now.
That is plainly false (i.e., there are things existing now that came about through efficient causes).
Therefore efficient causes do not extend ad infinitum into the past.
Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.
The Third Way: Argument from Possibility and Necessity (Reductio argument)
We find in nature things that are possible to be and not to be, that come into being and go out of being i.e., contingent beings.
Assume that every being is a contingent being.
For each contingent being, there is a time it does not exist.
Therefore it is impossible for these always to exist.
Therefore there could have been a time when no things existed.
Therefore at that time there would have been nothing to bring the currently existing contingent beings into existence.
Therefore, nothing would be in existence now.
We have reached an absurd result from assuming that every being is a contingent being.
Therefore not every being is a contingent being.
Therefore some being exists of its own necessity, and does not receive its existence from another being, but rather causes them. This all men speak of as God.
The Fourth Way: Argument from Gradation of Being
There is a gradation to be found in things: some are better or worse than others.
Predications of degree require reference to the “uttermost” case (e.g., a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest).
The maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus.
Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.
The Fifth Way: Argument from Design
We see that natural bodies work toward some goal, and do not do so by chance.
Most natural things lack knowledge.
But as an arrow reaches its target because it is directed by an archer, what lacks intelligence achieves goals by being directed by something intelligent.
Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God.
0
Posted on 4/3/16 at 2:10 pm to East Coast Band
God loves dinosaurs not us. He/it made them first 
Posted on 4/3/16 at 2:12 pm to HogBalls
St. Thomas Aquinas 5 proofs of God's existence
This post is for triskelion, for your consideration: from
LINK
Aquinas' Five Proofs
What real evidence can be supplied for God's existence? St. Thomas, in his Summa Theologica, sets forth five separate proofs for the existence of God, Unlike St. Anselm's proof, which deals with pure concepts, St. Thomas' proofs rely on the world of our experience-what we can see around us. In these proofs we can easily see the influence of Aristotle and his doctrine of the Four Causes.
l) The Proof from Motion. We observe motion all around us. Whatever is in motion now was at rest until moved by something else, and that by something else, and so on. But if there were an infinite series of movers, all waiting to be moved by something else, then actual motion could never have got started, and there would be no motion now. But there is motion now. So there must be a First Mover which is itself unmoved. This First Mover we call God.
2) The Proof from Efficient Cause. Everything in the world has its efficient cause--its maker--and that maker has its maker, and so on. The coffee table was made by the carpenter, the carpenter by his or her parents, and on and on. But if there were just an infinite series of such makers, the series could never have got started, and therefore be nothing now. But there is something everything there is! So there must have been a First Maker, that was not itself made, and that First Maker we call God.
3) The Proof from Necessary vs. Possible Being. Possible, or contingent, beings are those, such as cars and trees and you and I, whose existence is not necessary. For all such beings there is a time before they come to be when they are not yet, and a time after they cease to be when they are no more. If everything were merely possible, there would have been a time, long ago, when nothing had yet come to be. Nothing comes from nothing, so in that case there would be nothing now! But there is something now-the world and everything in it-so there must be at least one necessary being. This Necessary Being we call God.
4) The Proof from Degrees of Perfection. We all evaluate things and people in terms of their being more or less perfectly true, good, noble and so on. We have certain standards of how things and people should be. But we would have no such standards unless there were some being that is perfect in every way, something that is the truest, noblest, and best. That Most Perfect Being we call God.
5) The Proof from Design. As we look at the world around us, and ourselves, we see ample evidence of design--the bird's wing, designed for the purpose of flight; the human ear, designed for the purpose of hearing; the natural environment, designed to support life; and on and on. If there is design, there must be a designer. That Designer we call God
triskelion, I interpret proof #3 as talking about the creation of the elements; proof #2 as talking about the forming of the elements into creation; and proof #1 as creation being put into motion.
The irony of proving God exists is, to a non-believer it can never be proven, but to a believer, proof of God can be seen just about everywhere.
Of course, if you need to see it to believe it, do you really have faith?
"The devil fears hearts on fire with love of God." --St. Catherine of Siena
"True holiness does not mean a flight from the world; rather, it lies in the effort to incarnate the Gospel in everyday life, in the family, at school and at work, and in social and political involvement." --Pope JPII
This post is for triskelion, for your consideration: from
LINK
Aquinas' Five Proofs
What real evidence can be supplied for God's existence? St. Thomas, in his Summa Theologica, sets forth five separate proofs for the existence of God, Unlike St. Anselm's proof, which deals with pure concepts, St. Thomas' proofs rely on the world of our experience-what we can see around us. In these proofs we can easily see the influence of Aristotle and his doctrine of the Four Causes.
l) The Proof from Motion. We observe motion all around us. Whatever is in motion now was at rest until moved by something else, and that by something else, and so on. But if there were an infinite series of movers, all waiting to be moved by something else, then actual motion could never have got started, and there would be no motion now. But there is motion now. So there must be a First Mover which is itself unmoved. This First Mover we call God.
2) The Proof from Efficient Cause. Everything in the world has its efficient cause--its maker--and that maker has its maker, and so on. The coffee table was made by the carpenter, the carpenter by his or her parents, and on and on. But if there were just an infinite series of such makers, the series could never have got started, and therefore be nothing now. But there is something everything there is! So there must have been a First Maker, that was not itself made, and that First Maker we call God.
3) The Proof from Necessary vs. Possible Being. Possible, or contingent, beings are those, such as cars and trees and you and I, whose existence is not necessary. For all such beings there is a time before they come to be when they are not yet, and a time after they cease to be when they are no more. If everything were merely possible, there would have been a time, long ago, when nothing had yet come to be. Nothing comes from nothing, so in that case there would be nothing now! But there is something now-the world and everything in it-so there must be at least one necessary being. This Necessary Being we call God.
4) The Proof from Degrees of Perfection. We all evaluate things and people in terms of their being more or less perfectly true, good, noble and so on. We have certain standards of how things and people should be. But we would have no such standards unless there were some being that is perfect in every way, something that is the truest, noblest, and best. That Most Perfect Being we call God.
5) The Proof from Design. As we look at the world around us, and ourselves, we see ample evidence of design--the bird's wing, designed for the purpose of flight; the human ear, designed for the purpose of hearing; the natural environment, designed to support life; and on and on. If there is design, there must be a designer. That Designer we call God
triskelion, I interpret proof #3 as talking about the creation of the elements; proof #2 as talking about the forming of the elements into creation; and proof #1 as creation being put into motion.
The irony of proving God exists is, to a non-believer it can never be proven, but to a believer, proof of God can be seen just about everywhere.
Of course, if you need to see it to believe it, do you really have faith?
"The devil fears hearts on fire with love of God." --St. Catherine of Siena
"True holiness does not mean a flight from the world; rather, it lies in the effort to incarnate the Gospel in everyday life, in the family, at school and at work, and in social and political involvement." --Pope JPII
Posted on 4/3/16 at 2:16 pm to djmicrobe
quote:
The irony of proving God exists is, to a non-believer it can never be proven, but to a believer, proof of God can be seen just about everywhere.
yup...
and if someones mind got changed from the vid, great, if not, that's ok too...
Posted on 4/3/16 at 2:35 pm to retired trucker
Enjoyed the book
Posted on 4/3/16 at 2:52 pm to East Coast Band
quote:it's funny you think it's skepticism.
Message
Proof of Heaven? by East Coast Band
For the non believeRS.
do us a favor:
For once, be skeptical of your own skepticism. Try it.
Posted on 4/3/16 at 3:05 pm to Lithium
quote:
Enjoyed the book
a good teacher will make it come alive with meaning like one never had before...
Posted on 4/3/16 at 3:06 pm to retired trucker
I posted the below quite a while ago in a similar thread, but reposted for consumption.
It never fails to suprise me that the self reported minds of science feel competent enough to completely dismiss any particular hypothesis regarding the question you posed.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you not evolved enough to realize that arrogant man is the true God?
At that point you can dismiss those who believe in "fairy tales". All you have to do is disregard that true scientists consider all scenarios as possibilities when attempting to solve complex problems. Revel in the fact that you can always make light of the fact that fairy tale believers are limiting their scope of thought. Just be aware that you may be engaging in same hypocritical line of thinking (by dismissing their beliefs as a possibility), but you likely have more initials behind your name. Also be aware that in your construct that you or an entity that you can better identify with is God so that definitely makes you and your bias correct...
Keep aspiring to achieve this level of self enlightenment so you can cast judgement on the simpletons and reflect in your own introspective greatness. You will get there if you believe in YOURSELF, literally.
It never fails to suprise me that the self reported minds of science feel competent enough to completely dismiss any particular hypothesis regarding the question you posed.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you not evolved enough to realize that arrogant man is the true God?
At that point you can dismiss those who believe in "fairy tales". All you have to do is disregard that true scientists consider all scenarios as possibilities when attempting to solve complex problems. Revel in the fact that you can always make light of the fact that fairy tale believers are limiting their scope of thought. Just be aware that you may be engaging in same hypocritical line of thinking (by dismissing their beliefs as a possibility), but you likely have more initials behind your name. Also be aware that in your construct that you or an entity that you can better identify with is God so that definitely makes you and your bias correct...
Keep aspiring to achieve this level of self enlightenment so you can cast judgement on the simpletons and reflect in your own introspective greatness. You will get there if you believe in YOURSELF, literally.
This post was edited on 4/3/16 at 3:52 pm
Posted on 4/3/16 at 3:07 pm to thegreatboudini
quote:
What evidence do you have?
I love when people take this stance. The Bible proves that it is real. What proof that you have that it is not?
Posted on 4/3/16 at 3:10 pm to ValentiTiger
quote:
love when people take this stance. The Bible proves that it is real.
Wait, what?
How does the Bible prove it is real?
quote:
What proof that you have that it is not?
That isn't how the burden of proof works. Prove unicorns aren't real.
This post was edited on 4/3/16 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 4/3/16 at 3:13 pm to retired trucker
Solid +1
Posted on 4/3/16 at 3:16 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
God isn't real
Better hope you're right bro.
As for me, I'm a true believer!
Posted on 4/3/16 at 3:17 pm to WhoDat937
Well, because the Bible is truth. It's Gods word. God reigns from heaven. Not believing it is on you, but by doing so you sure are risking a lot.
Posted on 4/3/16 at 3:17 pm to Supermoto Tiger
quote:
Better hope you're right bro.
Has always been a stupid argument
Posted on 4/3/16 at 3:18 pm to ValentiTiger
quote:
Well, because the Bible is truth. It's Gods word. God reigns from heaven
What's in the Bible is true because the Bible says it is true.
Makes complete logical sense.
Seriously?
This post was edited on 4/3/16 at 3:19 pm
Posted on 4/3/16 at 3:20 pm to TheIndulger
quote:
Heaven is real. God is real. Enough said.
Absolutely.
quote:
Proof??
Where's the proof that against Heaven and God?
For all the unbelievers -- you better hope you're right. LMAO
Posted on 4/3/16 at 3:20 pm to WhoDat937
Yeah man, seriously. It also says that there will be a great falling away. So you're doing your part in making the Bible true. Good job!
Posted on 4/3/16 at 3:22 pm to ValentiTiger
quote:
Yeah man, seriously.
Enjoy the circular logic.
Harry Potter is real because the Harry Potter books say it is.
This post was edited on 4/3/16 at 3:22 pm
Posted on 4/3/16 at 3:23 pm to Supermoto Tiger
quote:
Where's the proof that against Heaven and God?
There isn't any.
quote:
For all the unbelievers -- you better hope you're right. LMAO
Good ole Pascal's wager. Never fails.
Posted on 4/3/16 at 3:23 pm to WhoDat937
if that makes you feel better.
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