- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
0
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:24 pm to beejon
quote:
quote:
metaphysical and scientific.
Are those compatible?
Yeah, this is kinda where they would meet. If we can induce a metaphysical experience then we can better understand what it is and why we have them. We can wrap our heads around why we yearn for this higher plane of existence to be and whether there's anything to it.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:25 pm to LucasP
quote:
Maybe we all get addicted to happiness and just quit doing life.
So is this completely electrical? Basically bypassing hormones/body chemistry? Because normally you run into the problem of you need a bigger fix over time and eventually you burn out your body's ability to produce the right drugs. If this bypasses that then, could you actually have the best moment ever every moment, or is everything relative and we would constantly need to experience new highs thus running into the same problem with drug based highs?
Also
quote:
80% of the subjects reported the ‘presence’ of ‘nonphysical beings’ in the room where the experiments were conducted, including the ‘presence of God’ in a small number of subjects.”
Why does this have to be about THE God? Why not the upper dimensional space aliens we can't normally detect?
Many people reported seeing Jesus, I wonder if it was European paintings Jesus or the actual middle eastern Jesus? If it's hippie Jesus, that suggests what they are seeing is pulling from their own mind rather than seeing something "new". Although maybe the upper dimensional aliens are able to look like whatever us lower being consider God to be.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:25 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
I most certainly am not.
quote:
I think this manipulation sort of highlights the underlying idea that some people are predisposed to religiosity and some are not. Sort of a counterproductive mechanism if you're, say, god.
Well, if the god is one that requires a belief in it for eternal life, it didn't do a very good job of creating the human brain.
Maybe i'm misinterpreting then. What did you mean by this?
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:25 pm to BugAC
This is old news. I've been sticking my finger in a light socket for years, with similar results.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:28 pm to BugAC
quote:
Maybe i'm misinterpreting then. What did you mean by this?
That the assertion that one must accept god or be forever punished in an lake of fire is rather hard to believe, given that the circumstances of the study. For the record, I'm agnostic to the existence of god. I'm totally open to the idea.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:31 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
So is this completely electrical? Basically bypassing hormones/body chemistry?
Good question, I was kind of assuming it was bypassing the chemical part and just running a program on the brain's circuitry. Guess I need to do some research. But if my assumption was correct then...
quote:
could you actually have the best moment ever every moment, or is everything relative and we would constantly need to experience new highs thus running into the same problem with drug based highs?
You could run the program that the brain runs for new experiences, tricking it into never feeling repetitive and always be elated. Or you could just keep wiping the memory clean so it's always new.
We'd all be in permanent bliss comas. And nothing would get done.
This post was edited on 7/29/15 at 1:32 pm
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:32 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
That the assertion that one must accept god or be forever punished in an lake of fire is rather hard to believe, given that the circumstances of the study.
How does one correlate to the other? I don't see the connection. Granted i didn't read the link but from what i gather from the OP, is the helmet induces a sense of Euphoria, not unlike some drugs. How does that correlate to someone with Faith?
To me, Faith is a lot more than a euphoric feeling. Faith is different to each individual. It's like a fingerprint, every person has their own individual views and beliefs in faith, not one of them exactly like another. Trying to simplify it into a helmet and equating the 2 is sloppy "science" at best.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:33 pm to Sparkplug#1
quote:
This is old news. I've been sticking my finger in a light socket for years, with similar results.
quote:
Sparkplug#1
Name checks out.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:33 pm to LucasP
quote:
Yeah, this is kinda where they would meet. If we can induce a metaphysical experience then we can better understand what it is and why we have them. We can wrap our heads around why we yearn for this higher plane of existence to be and whether there's anything to it.
One's behavior would then be externally driven vs. internally driven (DNA) if an external source is found which influences one's choices.
To me, this is delving into the spiritual realm.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:35 pm to beejon
quote:
spiritual
You use that word one more time and I will punch you in the throat.
Keep it together man, you can have a theist/atheist circle jerk in any other thread.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:36 pm to LucasP
quote:
You use that word one more time and I will punch you in the throat.
Keep it together man, you can have a theist/atheist circle jerk in any other thread.
How about 'supernatural'?
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:38 pm to BugAC
quote:
How does one correlate to the other? I don't see the connection. Granted i didn't read the link but from what i gather from the OP, is the helmet induces a sense of Euphoria, not unlike some drugs. How does that correlate to someone with Faith?
You should read the link, then. It isn't magnetically induced euphoria. It's magnetically induced "mystical experience", essentially.
quote:
To me, Faith is a lot more than a euphoric feeling. Faith is different to each individual. It's like a fingerprint, every person has their own individual views and beliefs in faith, not one of them exactly like another. Trying to simplify it into a helmet and equating the 2 is sloppy "science" at best.
You're conflating topics. At minimum, you could say that I was asserting that people with "faith" are people predisposed to religiosity (predisposed due to activation of the brain area responsible for these mystical experience). That's the whole reason I asserted the heaven/hell thing in the first place. If certain individuals cannot experience these mystic-type phenomena, they are disadvantaged in the path to believe in god. That's all.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:44 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
It isn't magnetically induced euphoria. It's magnetically induced "mystical experience", essentially.
What the hell is a "mystical experience"? Kind of like a euphoric feeling, no?
quote:
At minimum, you could say that I was asserting that people with "faith" are people predisposed to religiosity (predisposed due to activation of the brain area responsible for these mystical experience). That's the whole reason I asserted the heaven/hell thing in the first place. If certain individuals cannot experience these mystic-type phenomena, they are disadvantaged in the path to believe in god. That's all.
were the 80% of people that felt this mystical feeling all Religous? What about the 20% that didn't believe? I'll go read some of the link.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:46 pm to beejon
quote:
How about 'supernatural'?
Absolutely not.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:47 pm to LucasP
quote:
You use that word one more time and I will punch you in the throat.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:47 pm to BugAC
Don't just read the article. Read the actual data from the experiment done in 2014. Ten percent of the participants knew what was going on and magically only felt sleepy. A couple of the religious participants made comments along the lines that they didn't want to let down the administrators by not having out of body experiences. They also used different levels of magnetism. This was unfortunately an attempt to be published, and to arrive at the intended hypothesis.
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:50 pm to LucasP
quote:
How about 'supernatural'?
quote:
Absolutely not.
External force? (Man I'm trying here!)
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:53 pm to blueboy
I don't remember if the previous experiments / scientists had a decidedly atheist bent, or if a slew of atheists grabbed on to the results as proof that religious experiences were easily induced hallucinations. But the wording of this article suggests these researchers set this experiment up in a fairly open minded manner, and don't seem to be jumping to conclusions as to what this means... which is the way it should be. It's important to try to keep biases (in either direction) from influencing conclusions.
On the one hand it may be said that the mind can easily be influenced to see things (whether by influence of magnets, drugs, etc.). I'm sure it's even possible to tweak such influences so that those under the influence are more likely to perceive what is suggested. Because perceptions can be created / influenced via this method, though, it doesn't logically follow that all similar experiences can only be created by a similar mechanism, and it doesn't invalidate the experiences of others that don't match our own. It could be easily argued, after all, that God created everything and is in everything, including the ability to experience experimentally induced perceptions. In this context, perceptions-- real or imaginary-- are still only data points and we would still have to choose what such experiences mean to us and choose to grow towards or away from God. Note: this thread isn't the place to argue that. It's probably the main argument that comes out of a topic like this, but the experiments, in themselves, are currently inconclusive.
In a similar vein, other scientists who work with hallucinagens have suggested the paradigm that the human mind and senses have evolved to filter out much of the reality around us. Typical healthy men & women only visually perceive the smallest sliver of EM frequencies (what we call visible light); other creatures-- some insects, for instance-- evolved to utilize UV or IR radiation / light moreso than the visible spectrum. This is just one example. The perceived advantage to filtering out parts of reality would be that too much data is overwhelming. We've evolved to focus on what helps us most and gives us the greatest opportunities to survive and succeed as a species.
With this in mind, that specially tuned magnets can alter perception does not lead to answers so much as it leads to more questions: are such perceptions based purely on internal phenomena and combinations of memories, etc., or do the magnets alter the fine tuning of our brain in a way that makes it pick up signals that it normally doesn't?
On the one hand it may be said that the mind can easily be influenced to see things (whether by influence of magnets, drugs, etc.). I'm sure it's even possible to tweak such influences so that those under the influence are more likely to perceive what is suggested. Because perceptions can be created / influenced via this method, though, it doesn't logically follow that all similar experiences can only be created by a similar mechanism, and it doesn't invalidate the experiences of others that don't match our own. It could be easily argued, after all, that God created everything and is in everything, including the ability to experience experimentally induced perceptions. In this context, perceptions-- real or imaginary-- are still only data points and we would still have to choose what such experiences mean to us and choose to grow towards or away from God. Note: this thread isn't the place to argue that. It's probably the main argument that comes out of a topic like this, but the experiments, in themselves, are currently inconclusive.
In a similar vein, other scientists who work with hallucinagens have suggested the paradigm that the human mind and senses have evolved to filter out much of the reality around us. Typical healthy men & women only visually perceive the smallest sliver of EM frequencies (what we call visible light); other creatures-- some insects, for instance-- evolved to utilize UV or IR radiation / light moreso than the visible spectrum. This is just one example. The perceived advantage to filtering out parts of reality would be that too much data is overwhelming. We've evolved to focus on what helps us most and gives us the greatest opportunities to survive and succeed as a species.
With this in mind, that specially tuned magnets can alter perception does not lead to answers so much as it leads to more questions: are such perceptions based purely on internal phenomena and combinations of memories, etc., or do the magnets alter the fine tuning of our brain in a way that makes it pick up signals that it normally doesn't?
Posted on 7/29/15 at 1:54 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
I don't even know what I just read.
Summary: It's all in your head, even god.
This post was edited on 7/29/15 at 2:00 pm
Page 4 of 5
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News