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re: If fast food restaurants didn't exist, would you be any healthier?
Posted on 10/19/16 at 2:49 pm to Big Scrub TX
Posted on 10/19/16 at 2:49 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
When you say you can get "great results as well", which results are you referring to? If weight loss, then sure. But health? No. Eating non-fibrous carbs by definition causes insulin spikes, which over time can lead to insulin resistance - which is being increasingly identified as the most relevant marker for a whole host of major health problems (CVD, cancer, Alzheimers, diabetes, etc.)
Weight Loss, Muscle added, cardiovascular health.
If you have a highly strenuous training plan carbs help fuel the workouts. Also they help the body to recover. You deplete glycogen through these workouts.
The fact that you say fruits are "bad carbs" blows my mind. I find that crazy. It is a plant. It can be grown naturally. Potatoes/sweet potatoes are another great carb I enjoy that I would expect you think are "bad".
Keto can work for some people but it is not for everyone. I am not a big animal fat guy. I don't cook with oils. I look at those as artery clogging.
I believe a well rounded whole foods diet is key to being healthier.
But to each their own
ETA: My fault, I see you were the guy who said "fried foods in the right kind of oil are good for you". Our nutritional views are very far apart.
This post was edited on 10/19/16 at 2:53 pm
2
Posted on 10/19/16 at 3:39 pm to Shane4689
No
It's the convenience of boxed foods
It's the convenience of boxed foods
Posted on 10/19/16 at 5:11 pm to thibtigerfan
quote:
If you have a highly strenuous training plan carbs help fuel the workouts.
Sure. But fats are more efficient deliverers of that energy.
quote:
The fact that you say fruits are "bad carbs" blows my mind. I find that crazy. It is a plant. It can be grown naturally. Potatoes/sweet potatoes are another great carb I enjoy that I would expect you think are "bad".
You should learn more, then. Some fruits are OK in smaller doses (think mostly berries). Most other fruit is simply candy to the body. And as an aside, this "natural" thing is an illusion. Take a honey crisp apple for instance. That was created in a lab at the University of Minnesota (which is where most apple species come from) out of a peer group of literally thousands of other varieties they tried to engineer. It won out, in part, due to the sugar load it delivered to the palate. That apple is far far away from a "natural" apple you might have found thousands of years ago. Ditto oranges. Your liver/pancreas have no idea of the difference. They see sugar and they release insulin. Period. Potatoes are arguably the single worst thing you can eat. Massive insulin effects with very limited nutrition. (Sweet potatoes are sort of OK.)
quote:
Keto can work for some people but it is not for everyone. I am not a big animal fat guy. I don't cook with oils. I look at those as artery clogging.
Well, you are exactly wrong. Sugar is what clogs arteries, not dietary animal fat.
quote:
My fault, I see you were the guy who said "fried foods in the right kind of oil are good for you". Our nutritional views are very far apart.
Yes, that is an objectively true statement. E.g. shrimp, dipped in a batter of eggs and crushed pork rinds and fried up in coconut oil is outright good for you. Indisputably better for you than an apple or a pineapple.
Posted on 10/19/16 at 6:04 pm to thibtigerfan
quote:
I look at those as artery clogging.
no. and nothing in your post comports with science or reality. not to be rude.
there are two things with fruit: 1) if you look at the way we (the "we" refers to most north americans) would naturally get these fruits it would be in small quantities and/or very seasonally, 2) also, most fruits have been bred over the years to be MUCH sweeter than without human interaction. I'm not some "paleo" guy, but I do look to how we would eat but-for our machinations.
Fruit is super sweet--lots of sugar. Sure, it has fiber, and you get less sugar because you are eating the whole thing v an extract (like juice of table sugar). but it's still sugar and should be factored into you macros like any other carb.
Keto does work for everyone. Show me one person who has done it and it "didn't work." and why it didn't work.
Your nutritional views aren't based on science. THat's why they are "very far apart."
I point you to reddit's keto science board as a starting point for articles. You've been indoctrinated about fat, clearly. MCT oil, for instance is a crucial energy source. Good fat sources like avocado, macadamia nuts, coconut oil, olive oil, are also crucial. wild caught fish (good fatty kind), and eating whole grass-fed and pasture-raised meats/poultry; . Grassfed butter and cream. Cage-free eggs. These are the building blocks of our health.
eta: here is a "counterpoint" link about fruit--it is definitely one issue I would like to see studied more. LINK
but we have to bear in mind that we are inundated with carbs due to their relatively inexpensive nature and due to less innocuous and more insidious reasons (yet related to price) involving the sugar and grain industries.
Also, it's hard to tell how fruit might naturally balance out with our diets, as "Americans." We have everything from tundra to tropics here.
I do know that without sugar and grains being the basis of so many of our staples, we'd have a much higher % of good fat, protein and fiber in our diets.
I think if you are eating fruit as part of a balanced diet with fat and protein otherwise properly balanced then there's not big issue.
I eat a ton of berries--straw, black and blue mostly. Usually this is In grass-fed cow full-fat yogurt, with pecans, macadamia, flax, chia, sunflower, almonds, and hemp hearts. With bulletproof coffee (gf butter, MCT/liquid coconut oil, and a little gf full cream).
it's all about proportion, and it's also good to get fat and protein when you do take in carbs.
Also, as I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, polyunsaturated fat (omega 6es) can be pesky because so many restaurants use processed veggie oil, peanut oil etc that are high in PUFA, and it's easy to get too much.
I encourage you to read up on all these fats and what they do.
To BigScrub, did you share your blood test results? I haven't read through this whole thread.
Everyone I know who has been tested after some time on keto or similar low-carb ways of eating have seen triglycerides plummet and all of their markers improve. Read up on particle tests too.
This post was edited on 10/19/16 at 6:52 pm
Posted on 10/20/16 at 11:56 am to McLemore
Americans aren't typically eating grass fed beef just like they aren't typically eating fruit from a farmer's market or organic. It is the same thing.
They are typically buying mass produced/ processed meat. The true problem with Americans is their default to convenience.
Processed sugar and fructose are not one in the same, they are broken down differently in the body as fructose comes with fiber therefore slowing down the digestion. Fruit and processed sugar are not equal
In your theory a keto diet is healthier than a whole food plant based vegan diet (not the one I follow)
I have never done keto but I can only speak for my own numbers
My BP, weight, muscle mass, cardio vascular exercise (mile times) all speak for themselves. I put my results up against any other diet.
They are typically buying mass produced/ processed meat. The true problem with Americans is their default to convenience.
Processed sugar and fructose are not one in the same, they are broken down differently in the body as fructose comes with fiber therefore slowing down the digestion. Fruit and processed sugar are not equal
In your theory a keto diet is healthier than a whole food plant based vegan diet (not the one I follow)
I have never done keto but I can only speak for my own numbers
My BP, weight, muscle mass, cardio vascular exercise (mile times) all speak for themselves. I put my results up against any other diet.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 12:00 pm to TH03
quote:it is pudgy for me at 6'3. Most people have no concept of what "thin" actually means.
6' 185-190 is kinda pudgy for me. I
Posted on 10/20/16 at 1:43 pm to thibtigerfan
quote:
Processed sugar and fructose are not one in the same, they are broken down differently in the body as fructose comes with fiber therefore slowing down the digestion. Fruit and processed sugar are not equal
They are not one and the same but fructose is also destructive. That's a bug not a feature.
quote:
In your theory a keto diet is healthier than a whole food plant based vegan diet (not the one I follow)
Correct. Vegan diets have many nutritional deficiencies.
quote:
My BP, weight, muscle mass, cardio vascular exercise (mile times) all speak for themselves. I put my results up against any other diet.
You haven't mentioned insulin resistance, cholesterol particle size/count/density or inflammation - i.e the stuff that really matters.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 1:54 pm to Big Scrub TX
Again, not looking up stats, I find it hard to believe that a diet composed of naturally occurring foods from the earth is less healthy than one containing mass produced beef, chicken, and pork.
But to each their own
I have not had blood work done in around 4 years because of not having a need too. Last time they were in the best categories and our insurance never requested again. I have a hard time believing a different diet would make my numbers any better though.
The beginning of this was to say there are more than one way to become and stay "healthy". People have different approaches to it. It isn't a diet thing, it's a lifestyle thing.
But to each their own
I have not had blood work done in around 4 years because of not having a need too. Last time they were in the best categories and our insurance never requested again. I have a hard time believing a different diet would make my numbers any better though.
The beginning of this was to say there are more than one way to become and stay "healthy". People have different approaches to it. It isn't a diet thing, it's a lifestyle thing.
This post was edited on 10/20/16 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 10/20/16 at 2:17 pm to thibtigerfan
quote:
Again, not looking up stats, I find it hard to believe that a diet composed of naturally occurring foods from the earth is less healthy than one containing mass produced beef, chicken, and pork.
I certainly agree that non-mass produced meats are likely healthier. But as I said - I also don't agree that most of the fruits offered in your local stores are "naturally occurring from the earth." If anything, they have way more non-natural interference than beef with antibiotics.
quote:
Last time they were in the best categories
I'm telling you that the same ignorance around diet also exists around assessing bloodwork. For example, the topline "cholesterol" number which virtually everyone cares about is basically irrelevant. HDL and LDL are pretty irrelevant without getting a full profile of your particles. Did your insurance company require insulin resistance or inflammation to be measured?
quote:
I have a hard time believing a different diet would make my numbers any better though.
Diets absolutely have big impact on the factors I have laid out here.
quote:
The beginning of this was to say there are more than one way to become and stay "healthy". People have different approaches to it. It isn't a diet thing, it's a lifestyle thing.
I agree about lifestyle. I just don't agree that low weight necessarily means "healthy".
Posted on 10/20/16 at 2:40 pm to Big Scrub TX
A whole food plant based vegan diet isn't grabbing just anything at the store. Most of those people will be very particular. Just like I am sure you are and I am when shopping.
They did not
I agree they have a big impact, I was speaking on myself and that compared to what I do now I do not see me having a big difference.
I agree, there are still skinny fat people. I don't think I am "healthy" because I weigh a certain number. I know how my body performs and feels when put under stress.
I am much younger than I presume you are since you are apparently close to retiring. Hence, another reason those types of tests have never been done on me
quote:
Did your insurance company require insulin resistance or inflammation to be measured?
They did not
quote:
Diets absolutely have big impact on the factors I have laid out here.
I agree they have a big impact, I was speaking on myself and that compared to what I do now I do not see me having a big difference.
quote:
I just don't agree that low weight necessarily means "healthy".
I agree, there are still skinny fat people. I don't think I am "healthy" because I weigh a certain number. I know how my body performs and feels when put under stress.
I am much younger than I presume you are since you are apparently close to retiring. Hence, another reason those types of tests have never been done on me
Posted on 10/20/16 at 2:44 pm to thibtigerfan
quote:
I agree they have a big impact, I was speaking on myself and that compared to what I do now I do not see me having a big difference.
I guess that depends on how much sugar/carbs you eat.
quote:
I am much younger than I presume you are since you are apparently close to retiring. Hence, another reason those types of tests have never been done on me
The tests wouldn't have been run on me either had I not personally ordered them. I would recommend you get a full panel done so you can see your entire profile. The topline BS that's being done now is not very instructive.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 2:51 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
The tests wouldn't have been run on me either had I not personally ordered them. I would recommend you get a full panel done so you can see your entire profile. The topline BS that's being done now is not very instructive.
I have a friend who is a cardiologist who told me not to worry with doing this. Another reason I never did it on my own,
quote:
I guess that depends on how much sugar/carbs you eat.
I eat a lot of carbs. Sugar? Not so much. 1-2 pieces of fruit per day.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 3:01 pm to thibtigerfan
quote:
I eat a lot of carbs. Sugar? Not so much.
(non-fibrous)Carbs are sugar. There's just no getting around that. You could be needlessly spiking your insulin on a routine basis to negative health effect and your current bloodwork wouldn't even be picking that up.
If I can't convince you of anything else, I would at least like to get you to recognize that healthy oils DO NOT clog your arteries. The thing that clogs your arteries is sugar (carbs). That is just a fact.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 3:19 pm to Shane4689
Think about how many fat cajuns there were before McDonald's.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 4:03 pm to Shane4689
Probably not, even though its not fast food I still like unhealthy things from restaurants.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 4:24 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
You could be needlessly spiking your insulin on a routine basis to negative health effect and your current bloodwork wouldn't even be picking that up.
I intentionally spike my insulin, I target my carbs around this specifically.
quote:
healthy oils
different than animal fat. I eat almond butter which contains natural oils
quote:
The thing that clogs your arteries is sugar (carbs
Link me something showing that FRUITS cause clogs in your arteries.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 5:31 pm to thibtigerfan
quote:
I intentionally spike my insulin, I target my carbs around this specifically.
OK. That's not good.
quote:
different than animal fat. I eat almond butter which contains natural oils
Why is it different? If you boil down butter/lard/tallow it's oil. But fine. Saturated fat. Call it whatever you want. Cooking with saturated fat is healthy.
quote:
Link me something showing that FRUITS cause clogs in your arteries.
LINK
LINK
Posted on 10/20/16 at 5:35 pm to tigersownall
They don't exist here for any practical purpose. One McDonalds and two Subway shops. Everything else is locally owned restaurants or cafes.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 6:05 pm to Shane4689
I would probably just eat pop tarts and potato chips so no
This post was edited on 10/20/16 at 6:06 pm
Posted on 10/21/16 at 8:40 am to Big Scrub TX
First link states fructose so I see why you posted it. Then it specifiys it is because of refined sugars and HFCS,
Second link is 209 pages. I'm not reading that. I'll assume it doesn't specify fruit unless you care to post what page to look at.
And spiking insulin can be beneficial to muscle growth when done properly.
And as far as your saturated fats go:
LINK
From the American Heart Association published less than 10 days ago
Second link is 209 pages. I'm not reading that. I'll assume it doesn't specify fruit unless you care to post what page to look at.
And spiking insulin can be beneficial to muscle growth when done properly.
And as far as your saturated fats go:
LINK
From the American Heart Association published less than 10 days ago
This post was edited on 10/21/16 at 8:44 am
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