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re: Former Deputy Commander of NATO: West and Russia on course for war
Posted on 5/18/16 at 12:48 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 5/18/16 at 12:48 pm to Darth_Vader
The Europeans can deal with the Russians. frick those pussies.
1
Posted on 5/18/16 at 12:50 pm to ThatMakesSense
quote:
Crimea
quote:
River
Nice work sir
Posted on 5/18/16 at 12:50 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
This is the big if, and where I've disagreed with you in the past. I just don't see a reason for them to move into Central Europe.
That's because you're looking at it from our perspective. Putin has his own perspective though. And from his perspective, the world looks far different than how we see it. The danger lays here....
Putin wants them back for Russia. The danger comes if in his eyes it looks possible to take and hold them. and to be honest, right now it's not looking like that far fetched of an idea considering the state of European defenses.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 12:51 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
The Europeans can deal with the Russians
Maybe in about another decade or so, yes. Today? No.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 12:54 pm to Darth_Vader
Let me rephrase. The Europeans can deal with the Russians, or not, I don't really give a shite. They've been sitting over there for 65 years spending all their money on their ridiculous social programs instead of building a military that's even worth mentioning while we send our troops over there to guarantee their defense at the US taxpayers expense. I really don't care if the Russians frick up Europe. Frankly, they deserve to be raped and pillaged.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 12:54 pm to Darth_Vader
I could see them moving into Poland, but I can imagine those supply lines would be extremely vulnerable, as those former Eastern Bloc nations have absolutely no love for Russians.
The rhetoric has changed since Ukraine, and we could start seeing an arms build-up in lots of areas of the world.
It's highly likely a war is coming, but the scale of it is the question for me.
The rhetoric has changed since Ukraine, and we could start seeing an arms build-up in lots of areas of the world.
It's highly likely a war is coming, but the scale of it is the question for me.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 12:57 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Let me rephrase. The Europeans can deal with the Russians, or not, I don't really give a shite. They've been sitting over there for 65 years spending all their money on their ridiculous social programs instead of building a military that's even worth mentioning while we send our troops over there to guarantee their defense at the US taxpayers expense. I really don't care if the Russians frick up Europe. Frankly, they deserve to be raped and pillaged.
I agree with you 100%. Only problem though is we have this thing called the North Atlantic Treaty that pretty much means Europe is our Ole Lady.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 12:57 pm to Darth_Vader
We must make russia out to be the enemy! Why? I have no idea!
Posted on 5/18/16 at 12:59 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
to guarantee their defense at the US taxpayers expense
Well it was not as if it wasn't to our own benefit, or else we wouldn't have done it. For a long time the US's policy was to ensure it was the lone superpower, which meant it needed to project power and sustain it. In 1992, Paul Wolfowitz wrote a memo which suggested a continuation of that policy. That meant we could dictate policy to those areas we protected, and for great benefit too, as some of our best trading partners are those countries we defended. But things changed.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 1:04 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
I could not agree more. Yeah we have to stand with our NATO allies. But it's past time for them to start pulling their own weight.
This reminds me of the Robin Willams Skit:
"frick Americans. Go to hell Americans. What? The Germans are coming? I LOVE AMERICA!!!!!!"
I wonder how quickly their opinions of us will change with Big Red comes rolling through the Ukraine? Russia right now reminds me of a child with irresponsible parents. They'll start testing the limits because they know their parents aren't going to do shite. And unless we get a leader with foreign policy balls, they might just do whats in the OP.
This post was edited on 5/18/16 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 5/18/16 at 1:05 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I could see them moving into Poland, but I can imagine those supply lines would be extremely vulnerable, as those former Eastern Bloc nations have absolutely no love for Russians. The rhetoric has changed since Ukraine, and we could start seeing an arms build-up in lots of areas of the world. It's highly likely a war is coming, but the scale of it is the question for me.
Just a guess, but I'd think they'd take out the Baltic countries first before moving into Poland. For starters, if they moved on Poland first without taking down the Baltic countries, they'd be leaving the northern flank of their invasion force wide open. Plus, unlike Poland, the Baltics were actually part of the old Soviet Union while Poland was a satellite.
Look at it this way. Say in 1991 the shoe had been on the other foot and it was the US which collapsed and broke apart instead of the Soviet Union. Let's say most of New England broke off and maybe portions here in the south and formed their own countries. Fast forward to today and Canada is a member of the Warsaw Pact. But along with Canada being in the Warsaw Pact, so is the now independent New England. Now what's left of the US has had a resurgence over the past decade and has rebuilt it's armed forces to close to 1980's levels and is looking to reclaim what it once had. Already it's regained land lost in the south. Which way would it turn next? To Warsaw Pact Canada or Warsaw Pact New England?
That's basically where Russia is today.
This post was edited on 5/18/16 at 1:06 pm
Posted on 5/18/16 at 1:16 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Just a guess, but I'd think they'd take out the Baltic countries first before moving into Poland. For starters, if they moved on Poland first without taking down the Baltic countries, they'd be leaving the northern flank of their invasion force wide open. Plus, unlike Poland, the Baltics were actually part of the old Soviet Union while Poland was a satellite.
I didn't say they would move into Poland first. I said I could see them going as far as Poland. I don't see any reason for them to cross the Elbe or the Danube. Do you?
quote:
That's basically where Russia is today.
Except Russia is experiencing negative economic growth, with the Ruble reaching record lows against the dollar. Funding such an exercise becomes a serious question as well, not only sustaining it. That oil won't reach levels it once did further complicates matters.
I think Russia is projecting power with the aim of legitimizing its annexation of Crimea. I also think that Russian projection of power helped thaw Iranian-US relations, as the Caspian Basin has been under the Russian sphere of influence, with the Iranians also wishing to project power to help secure their regional aims. I don't think the US is being as naive as people claim.
This post was edited on 5/18/16 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 5/18/16 at 1:18 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Funding such an exercise becomes a serious question as well, not only sustaining it. That oil won't reach levels it once did further complicates matters.
Yeah but isnt Russia's problem right now exacerbated by the value of the ruble? IOW, they don't have direct access to oil and can't afford to buy it with a shrinking economy. So by gaining oil, they can fuel the machine. Its eventually going to rebound.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 1:22 pm to elprez00
quote:
Its eventually going to rebound.
Not as long as the Saudi's continue to maximize production to ensure the Iranians don't make any money.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 1:22 pm to notsince98
quote:
We must make russia out to be the enemy! Why? I have no idea!
They should be our natural ally against Muslims.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 1:23 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Russia is not the enemy. Islam is the enemy.
Now once the Islamic horde has been slaughtered and Europe reclaimed...maybe then Russia will be the enemy again. But for now they may need to be our allies
Couldn't disagree more, and it shocks me that so many people feel the way you do.
How people can be so scared of borderline an intangible threat or a group of loosely affiliated people's stuck in the stone age as opposed to a very tangible adversary in the second largest military power in the world boggles my mind.
ISIS and all that bullshite is peanuts compared to Russia. I don't give a flying fvck about ISIS as long as there's a real threat from Russia.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 1:24 pm to elprez00
quote:
Yeah but isnt Russia's problem right now exacerbated by the value of the ruble? IOW, they don't have direct access to oil and can't afford to buy it with a shrinking economy. So by gaining oil, they can fuel the machine. Its eventually going to rebound
One thing Russia has plenty of is oil. they don't have to buy it, they've got a shite load of it.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 1:25 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Just a guess, but I'd think they'd take out the Baltic countries first before moving into Poland. For starters, if they moved on Poland first without taking down the Baltic countries, they'd be leaving the northern flank of their invasion force wide open. Plus, unlike Poland, the Baltics were actually part of the old Soviet Union while Poland was a satellite.
Darth we had this discussion awhile back, and it all comes down to Air Superiority, and we (US) dont have enough assets in Europe to achieve it without a significant increase in planes and pilots.
Who has the most capable AF in the EU? Germany? France? And how long could they hold out against the Russian AF?
And if Russia rolls, do you see any way this administration rolls out against them?
Posted on 5/18/16 at 1:26 pm to elprez00
quote:
And if Russia rolls, do you see any way this administration rolls out against them?
It probably won't be this administration.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 1:26 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
One thing Russia has plenty of is oil. they don't have to buy it, they've got a shite load of it.
So its the opposite. They've got noone to sell to?
So whats the reason for the power play? What does Russia hope to gain by a war? Nationalism?
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