re: Activists threaten to remove confederate monuments themselves in NOLA

He calls them traitors for doing something the founding father's did, secede from tyranny.

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Maybe, but I think we get into dangerous territory when we presume to know others' motivations. Once you tell yourself that the other side is dead set on malevolent intentions, it makes it harder to empathize and have any real debate about it.

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I agree, but the ignorance of the counter movement is difficult to ignore, as well. The ignorance of the complexity of the division and what brought the confederacy about. The ignorance about the conflicting and contradictory positions that prominent leaders (all arguably great men) on both sides had about the issue that ultimately contributed to the greatest bloodshed we've experienced as a nation.

So, I understand black resentment of confederate memorials, but rather than use them as teaching moments, the preference is to "tear down and forget" which is always the wrong answer, IMHO.

Robert E. Lee was a great man. He was at the very least conflicted on the issues of slavery. His loyalty to his home state is admirable when you consider how painful and agonizing a decision it was to bear arms against the U.S. And this is but one example, but a relevant one in this dispute.

Another example - when Jefferson Davis was notified he had been elected President of the CSA, rather than celebrate, he appeared as a man who had been given a life sentence or other terrible consequence.

These men, while great men, were also highly imperfect, more or less blind or oblivious to the evils of slavery and, like it or not, their rebellion was de facto support of that particular institution. They should be judged in the context of the time, however.

For myself, I am conflicted as well. On the one hand, I believe their struggle, on principle, was correct. But, as Pete Longstreet was fond of saying, "I always thought we should have freed the slaves, THEN fired on Ft. Sumter."

Alas, that conflicted history continues to reside with us to this day on our conflicted present day issues of "race" relations. There is but 1 race - the human race. If we all agreed to just act like that going forward, the rest of these issues would take care of themselves.

But, people are by nature ignorant and enjoy their own ignorance. This is yet another sample of that.

"If I had known this shite was going to happen, I would have picked my own damn cotton."

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confederate monuments



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Andrew Jackson

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I was about to say the same thing. He was a piece of shite, but not a confederate.

Rewritten "progressive" history always amazes me.

So now, Andrew Jackson, was a confederate. Something that didn't exist until some 50 years after the war of 1812.

Brilliant.

Tell me more. I love the progressive version of history. Reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld when Kramer gave the tours on horseback through NY.

TIL

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Rewritten "progressive" history always amazes me.

So now, Andrew Jackson, was a confederate. Something that didn't exist until some 50 years after the war of 1812.

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I think it had to do more with the trail of tears. As I said, not confederate, but was a piece of shite.

why do you get so triggered, son?

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That is well within the realm of possibilities and I'm dead serious. These people will stop at nothing to change current society simply for the sake of changing it. Yes, they say it's to "make people feel comfortable and included", but these people get off on bullying people in order to do nothing more than make a huge public scene. These are the same people that were picked on in high school that now look at this as a prime opportunity to exact their revenge on the world. It's a twisted, empty ideology that must be stopped before it's too late.

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frick it we need to rename the state. King Louis XIV created the code noire, which allowed slavery in Louisiana.

The neanderthals tagged the monuments last night...