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re: So our past few offseasons have just been absolutely terrible
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:12 am to Chad504boy
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:12 am to Chad504boy
quote:
every team has a few negatives
we lost our #2 guy on offense and possibly our #1 guy on defense (no lower than 2 behind lewis) in an offseason
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but right the fricking ship, and thats what they are trying to do.
but the cost (wasting years of brees) is pretty great
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cap penalty cost doesn't take W's off the scoreboard.
it hurts our ability to add players to the team which does affect Ws
2
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:13 am to NOSHAU
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Ellerbe has sucked since he left Baltimore and is a reclamation project.
101 tackles in 15 games first year, you are talking out of your arse.
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Davison is not even a given to make the team and Williams is a potential solid backup.
davison is going to wreck shite and PJ can be a good nickel.
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actually lost cap space in the deals we made.
not long term cap which was more important.
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. Byrd was never coming into his own last year.
the frick he wasn't, he was coming off a very good game last year before he was hurt. A healthy byrd last year would have put us in the playoffs.
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However, I do have very high hopes for him to bounce back.
i got no shits for your hopes, you're dead to me.
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:13 am to MoreOrLes
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Say what you will but Goodell effectively and at a minimum shrunk our window to the SB.
i don't disagree at all
quote:
Nonetheless. management has made some bad decisions but hindsight is 20/20
it was pretty well accepted the team was betting the farm on 2014 being another SB run...and management was wrong
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:15 am to Chad504boy
We got good return for graham, and I'm optimistic to see how it turns out. However, how it happened certainly isn't ideal with the dead money. I'm hopeful the change in philosophy decision was the correct one at the margin.
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:16 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
we lost our #2 guy on offense and possibly our #1 guy on defense (no lower than 2 behind lewis) in an offseason
you better be talking about lofton on Defense cause junior is a phony piece of shite.
quote:
but the cost (wasting years of brees) is pretty great
wasting would have been to not right the ship and gain control of lcoker room again. We won a super bowl with less talent than what we're going to have next year.
quote:
it hurts our ability to add players to the team which does affect Ws
keeping said players would have hurt more than the disadvantage of cutting players. Still we weren't able to add anyone even keeping them so no difference except a healthier happier locker room. Gallete's field production is hog shite and replacable. He's literally the worst best pass rusher in the league. Kikaha stays healthy, we are fine.
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:16 am to Chad504boy
quote:
davison is going to wreck shite and PJ can be a good nickel.
for the record, to address where this point of your's started, i said our defensive rookies better pan out from day 1 or our D will be a shite show. that's not dismissing our rookies and it directly addressed them as assets
quote:
not long term cap which was more important.
any productive replacement player will cost that "saved" cap, so this argument is pointless (unless we can somehow start drafting well with impact rookies and never re-sign them to big deals. then you have a point)
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A healthy byrd last year would have put us in the playoffs.
i mean this sounds cool and all but our division was one of the worst in modern NFL history. if we were good, we should have run away with it. saying he could have pushed us to the lead of a historically bad division isn't saying much on his behalf
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:18 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
it was pretty well accepted the team was betting the farm on 2014 being another SB run...and management was wrong
On paper I think we had arguably the most talented team in the league and maybe the most talented Saints team ever. That was my feeling going into the year. Something was obviously really wrong though.
This seeming change in philosophy has me cautiously optimistic.
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:20 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
it was pretty well accepted the team was betting the farm on 2014 being another SB run...and management was wrong
Agreed. I think they saw that and we are now shifting how the team is designed. We drafted some young guys for defense, upgraded the RB position and got some better offensive lineman.
Gotta give the front office props for not charging into the same direction year in and year out. It may not turn around this year, but I think this shift will pay off in three or four years when Brees is retiring and our offensive line and defense is hitting its stride.
IMHO
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:21 am to Chad504boy
quote:
you better be talking about lofton on Defense cause junior is a phony piece of shite.
he is our edge pass rush. we run a 3-4. without at least one top-level guy from the edge, it's a bad D
he's had 2 years of 10+ sacks and tons of QB pressures. those guys don't grow on trees no matter how big of a fricker he is off the field
quote:
keeping said players would have hurt more than the disadvantage of cutting players.
i didn't say we should have kept them (junior at least). the mistake was the big deals they got
if they weren't part of the plan, then they shouldn't have gotten the deals in the first place. how many elite teams cut players in the 2nd year of big deals? how often do you see the pats, packers, seahawks, etc doing that? how often are those guys impact guys on their respective side of the ball? pretty much never. we had TWO in one offseason
no matter how you slice it, that is pretty historic (in the bad way)
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:23 am to Peazey
quote:
On paper I think we had arguably the most talented team in the league and maybe the most talented Saints team ever. That was my feeling going into the year. Something was obviously really wrong though.
yeah i had high hopes that were quickly dashed. the whole "NFC South is one of the worst divisions in NFL history" joke all year just kept the slightest bit of hope that we could turn it around at the end and pull a NY Giants-like run.
quote:
This seeming change in philosophy has me cautiously optimistic.
i think long term it can theoretically work but our team is built around drew brees, so "long term" is just taking another massive risk
it's like we pulled what little we had left after going "all in" against a smaller stack and we're just holding off and pushing to get blinds back and hope to stay alive for the next cut.
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:24 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i said our defensive rookies better pan out from day 1 or our D will be a shite show. that's not dismissing our rookies and it directly addressed them as assets
maybe but you can say that about most players drafted in rounds 1 and 2. Of course we're needing anthony and kikaha to pan out. Most teams need their high draft picks to pan out.
quote:
any productive replacement player will cost that "saved" cap, so this argument is pointless (unless we can somehow start drafting well with impact rookies and never re-sign them to big deals. then you have a point)
but they are nickels on the dollars in year one when structured right, see byrd's deal in yr 1. We're really not in need of any major replacements at this time anyways.
quote:
i mean this sounds cool and all but our division was one of the worst in modern NFL history. if we were good, we should have run away with it. saying he could have pushed us to the lead of a historically bad division isn't saying much on his behalf
byrd was playing better and his downfall led to our secondary becoming a shite show. Vaccaro played injured all year as well.
Listen your thread sounds cool and all and you think you have a bunch of rational original thoughts, but the same pessimistic arse saints fans coming here at the opportunity to piss on a parade which you acting like you already know the results of these moves made is fricking tiring. You just gonna see the piss side of every move made, go frick off and be a falcons fan. Sure the gallete deal sucks but it was necessary and at this point makes us a better football team.
Jimmy trade was definitely a game changer but his resigning didn't hurt us. Anything else you're whining about, A) You don't know everything front office knows and B) Its seeking an opportunity to piss on the organization you are pretending to be a fan of.
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:28 am to Chad504boy
Can I petition to trade some fans to the Cowboys?
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:28 am to Chad504boy
quote:
maybe but you can say that about most players drafted in rounds 1 and 2. Of course we're needing anthony and kikaha to pan out. Most teams need their high draft picks to pan out.
no our defense is literally built around 2 rookies this year. there is "we need rookieA to pan out but we have a pass rusher ahead of him to keep our defense afloat" pressure and "we need rookieA to be an elite edge rusher from day 1" pressure. see the difference? we're in the latter group now
quote:
Listen your thread sounds cool and all and you think you have a bunch of rational original thoughts, but the same pessimistic arse saints fans coming here at the opportunity to piss on a parade which you acting like you already know the results of these moves made is fricking tiring.
it's funny that my "piss on a parade" commentary from the past, which you attacked in the same way, has been proven right
i've certainly been more on point than your irrational optimism
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:32 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
"piss on a parade" commentary from the past, which you attacked in the same way, has been proven right
you aren't proven nothing. your piss on a parade commentary is hindsight. what the frick are you right about? you had zero idea the type of behavior gallete was going start displaying and the locker room wedges that were going to form.
quote:
i've certainly been more on point than your irrational optimism
things got bad last year, its complete rational to have optimism when they feel they are resolving the issues that caused last year to spriral to shite.
quote:
no our defense is literally built around 2 rookies this year. there is "we need rookieA to pan out but we have a pass rusher ahead of him to keep our defense afloat" pressure and "we need rookieA to be an elite edge rusher from day 1" pressure. see the difference? we're in the latter group now
Anthony is a bookend no doubt, first round pick... kikaha can play his way into the role easily but we certainly have options with spencer and ellerbe and anthony and hawthorne and haraylson etc if not.
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:40 am to Chad504boy
quote:
kikaha can play his way into the role easily but we certainly have options with spencer and ellerbe and anthony and hawthorne and haraylson etc if not.
the only pass rusher with any sort of a history of elite pass rushing on that list is spencer, who is ancient, injured, and hasn't produced a single sack since the 2012 season. he's got 0.5 total the past 2 years. the only other edge rusher is haraylson, who is a solid backup and SLB and who maxed out at 8.0 sacks....in 2008
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if they weren't part of the plan, then they shouldn't have gotten the deals in the first place.
this falls under the whole hindsight is 20/20. I don't think anyone would argue that Junior was part of the future of this team until he had an epic meltdown of an offseason. There have been many posts, articles, comments from players that basically confirm that once Junior got his money, he completely changed. Not sure how you fault the front office for that.
In regards to Jimmy, I agree that it did not make sense to make this move 1 year after you gave him a big deal. The only rationale around it was SP decided he wanted to focus more on the run as most of our wins last year came when we ran the ball successfully. This philosophical change happened a year after the big contract. If Junior doesn't have his meltdown of an offseason; I don't think that trade hurts that much.
They also tried to trade Stills to Seattle (rumors only, but confirmed in Miami deal) for Unger; but had to part w/ Jimmy to get the Center they wanted. Plus, this may go into the Sproles category where the front office & coaches realized we were too predictable when Jimmy was in the game. It seamed we were throwing every time he was on the field.
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:46 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and we have a guy who was seen as an offensive cornerstone and our offensive future traded to a conference rival as an afterthought and cheap acquisition for them.
That's a pretty ridiculous comment
Agree with most of the rest
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:47 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
our receiving core is a combination of young, a mess, and completely unproven, with one ancient/expensive guy left
And how different would this have been w/ Stills in the mix? He actually falls under the description "young, a mess, and unproven". I removed the completely part because he is a field stretcher, but was not the most consistent route runner underneath.
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:48 am to SlowFlowPro
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(no lower than 2 behind lewis) in an offseason
You could put him behind Lewis, Cam, Byrd, and now possibly Browner. Still a huge loss
Posted on 7/28/15 at 11:53 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and we have a guy who was seen as an offensive cornerstone and our offensive future traded to a conference rival as an afterthought and cheap acquisition for them. i mean we strengthened what used to be the team we knew we'd meet up with in the playoffs because of our ineptitude.
Unger is considered a top center and we weakened their team(using your slant) while upgrading the most important position besides QB and thats the O-line.
We drafted a stud OT. Dumped Grubbs. And may have battles for both guard positions in camp.
Agree the last couple of years have just plain stunk. But the people who are running the team now are the same one's from 06 09 and perhaps the best offensive team I've seen in 11.
What this team needs is as Chad said good chemistry and I will add we need a got damn win streak. Any win streak will help. Sick of win one lose one. Would really help to get this team and staff believing in themselves once again. Especially after the last few years and all the young and new members.
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