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Official optimism post-draft and FA, thread ed.
Posted on 4/30/17 at 10:45 am
Posted on 4/30/17 at 10:45 am
now i know we didn't get that alleged stud RDE to pair on our line, and i've discussed this in many threads but i'll just say it again. there were 3 tiers of rushers in this draft. the legit elite guy, who went #1, barnett/taco, who weren't there at 32, and then a large grouping of similar guys who were all flawed but had potential. we got one of those guys (and got one who wasn't really a 3-4 OLB who we would use on passing downs and has the potential to be a full-time starter, unlike many of the other options, like Williams). we can only draft given the set of players in front of us, and this year was a "hope and pray" year for elite edge guys (even with the #1 overall pick, mind you. even garrett has a pretty high chance of busting)
we also signed Okafor who should be a solid starter and may get back up to the 8-sack range (Which he has done before. he's only like 26 so he's not an old man or anything).
with the additions of klein, lattimore, and williams along with the HOPE of a full, healthy season from breaux and rankins, our D has the pieces to be decent and possibly really good (depending on the rookies and health, but i'll go with average for reasonable expectations, which is a huge jump)
with our OL additions plus acquiring 2 legit RBs (AP and Kamara), i think the overall philosophy is to rely on the running game more to help our defense out. if we can sustain longer drives, this will help our defense immensely on the field (more rest time and time to scheme in-game) and in statistical rankings (the less opportunity offenses have to put up yards/points, the better we will rank naturally). this should also help ease pressure on Brees and may build a post-Brees foundation
our DL has 3/4 really good to elite players. if our secondary can cover a bit better, then we can also send pressure on passing downs to create a pass rush. if we went barnett at 11 and developed a slightly better pass rush from the front 4 without a major addition at CB, then we'd be stuck with the same defensive issues in the passing game. barnett has the chance to be a really good pro but he's not a game-changer at DE
and no matter what, we didn't draft fricking Mahomes at 11. we should all send KC thank you cards for that bullshite. if we drafted him then we wouldn't get a top-level DE or CB and that would be worse than terrible
the pessimism argument deals with one thing: injuries. we did draft guys with injury concerns and if they keep up, then we're fricked. if we get lucky, we may have drafted 3 impact rookies at positions of need (lattimore, williams, and AnalZone). anything Hendrickson can contribute would be pure laginappe
we also signed Okafor who should be a solid starter and may get back up to the 8-sack range (Which he has done before. he's only like 26 so he's not an old man or anything).
with the additions of klein, lattimore, and williams along with the HOPE of a full, healthy season from breaux and rankins, our D has the pieces to be decent and possibly really good (depending on the rookies and health, but i'll go with average for reasonable expectations, which is a huge jump)
with our OL additions plus acquiring 2 legit RBs (AP and Kamara), i think the overall philosophy is to rely on the running game more to help our defense out. if we can sustain longer drives, this will help our defense immensely on the field (more rest time and time to scheme in-game) and in statistical rankings (the less opportunity offenses have to put up yards/points, the better we will rank naturally). this should also help ease pressure on Brees and may build a post-Brees foundation
our DL has 3/4 really good to elite players. if our secondary can cover a bit better, then we can also send pressure on passing downs to create a pass rush. if we went barnett at 11 and developed a slightly better pass rush from the front 4 without a major addition at CB, then we'd be stuck with the same defensive issues in the passing game. barnett has the chance to be a really good pro but he's not a game-changer at DE
and no matter what, we didn't draft fricking Mahomes at 11. we should all send KC thank you cards for that bullshite. if we drafted him then we wouldn't get a top-level DE or CB and that would be worse than terrible
the pessimism argument deals with one thing: injuries. we did draft guys with injury concerns and if they keep up, then we're fricked. if we get lucky, we may have drafted 3 impact rookies at positions of need (lattimore, williams, and AnalZone). anything Hendrickson can contribute would be pure laginappe
This post was edited on 4/30/17 at 10:46 am
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Posted on 4/30/17 at 10:49 am to SlowFlowPro
I'm extremely (foolishly?) optimistic about the year we can have following what I viewed to me a good free agency and a solid draft.
Our offense will be top 5. Our defense just needs to be okay and cause a damn turnover on occasion. And most importantly, we need to get lucky one year and let the pesky injury bug ruin someone else's year!
I'm predicting a 10-6 season and winning our division.
Our offense will be top 5. Our defense just needs to be okay and cause a damn turnover on occasion. And most importantly, we need to get lucky one year and let the pesky injury bug ruin someone else's year!
I'm predicting a 10-6 season and winning our division.
Posted on 4/30/17 at 10:49 am to SlowFlowPro
I like the draft but Analzone mehhhhh. I'm far from one of "those" LSU fans but I like Beckwith more there
Posted on 4/30/17 at 10:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
with our OL additions plus acquiring 2 legit RBs (AP and Kamara), i think the overall philosophy is to rely on the running game more to help our defense out. if we can sustain longer drives, this will help our defense immensely
Agree with this, but will Sean Payton playcall that way?
Posted on 4/30/17 at 10:50 am to FightinTigersDammit
He did in 2009
Posted on 4/30/17 at 10:58 am to Elleshoe
quote:
I'm far from one of "those" LSU fans but I like Beckwith more there
i get it, but AnalZone at least has the ability to play WLB at a high level and possibly SLB (which would be a waste)
Beckwith is a MLB only guy and we have that in Klein, most likely (hopefully?)
Posted on 4/30/17 at 10:58 am to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
but will Sean Payton playcall that way?
that's why this is the optimism thread
i don't believe he will stick with it every game
Posted on 4/30/17 at 11:01 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i don't believe he will stick with it every game
He's has some history of trying to show he's the smartest kid in the room, usually at the worst possible time.
Posted on 4/30/17 at 11:04 am to SlowFlowPro
Klein signing is definitely underrated
Posted on 4/30/17 at 11:05 am to SlowFlowPro
Slow, I agreed with most of your post, but I'm skeptical regarding this:
Who do you see in that group outside of Jordan?
quote:
our DL has 3/4 really good to elite players. if our secondary can cover a bit better, then we can also send pressure on passing downs to create a pass rush
Who do you see in that group outside of Jordan?
Posted on 4/30/17 at 11:07 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
our DL has 3/4 really good to elite players
???
Posted on 4/30/17 at 11:08 am to Elleshoe
quote:
He did in 2009
He did in 2006 & 2011 as well.
Posted on 4/30/17 at 11:12 am to FightinTigersDammit
Payton retooled that offense in similar fashion to his best ones
Hard to be optimistic about the defense. Happens every year. I like the additions, both coaching and personnel, but I don't know if it bears fruit in 2017. Should be better bc it can't be worse
Hard to be optimistic about the defense. Happens every year. I like the additions, both coaching and personnel, but I don't know if it bears fruit in 2017. Should be better bc it can't be worse
Posted on 4/30/17 at 11:14 am to Elleshoe
quote:
I like the draft but Analzone mehhhhh. I'm far from one of "those" LSU fans but I like Beckwith more there
Agree on Analzone. Disagree on Beckwith. Beckwith is a pure MLB and not the biggest need at that spot. I'd have rather gone with a DE or OLB or even another CB at that spot.
Posted on 4/30/17 at 11:15 am to LSUtoOmaha
Jordan, Fairley, Rankins = 3 really good to elite. It is the optimism thread.
Okafor could be really good, so could the other guys theoretically. I really like the Trey Hendrickson pick myself and think he can contribute at 6'4" 266#
Okafor could be really good, so could the other guys theoretically. I really like the Trey Hendrickson pick myself and think he can contribute at 6'4" 266#
Posted on 4/30/17 at 11:16 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
we also signed Okafor who should be a solid starter and may get back up to the 8-sack range (Which he has done before. he's only like 26 so he's not an old man or anything).
I understand why people would be skeptical & can't blame them for it, but for some reason I am pretty sure Okafor is going to kill it this year. Kenny Vacarro has been on this shitty defense for several years, he knows what we need, it is no coincidence his best friend who is a pass rusher signed with us.
I share your general optimism. I think Lattimore + Williams + Health will really, really improve the secondary. For the LBs, we have an absolute shitload on the roster, there will be some fantastic camp battles there. That + a new LB coach breeds major improvement by that unit. As long as we get something out of Okafor, Kikaha, Hendrickson and Muhammad I think we're going to be very improved on the DL as well.
I really like what we've done on offense as well. I think if Ramcyzk works out, we have the best OL in the NFL (we'll wait for that one to happen, though). Either way we are clearly reloading to duplicate our previous offense: 1 decent WR with a bunch of JAGs after, solid TE stable, good running game, amazing OL, dynamic joker back for mismatches. Brees is going to feast on people. Imagine us in 21 personnel (no FB, but Ingram/Peterson and Kamara), where do you even look? No clue where the ball is going. I can't imagine being the defense looking at that.
Posted on 4/30/17 at 11:30 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
Hard to be optimistic about the defense.
There is more than one way to skin a cat. This offense now has a built in power run game option that has been lacking since 2011. We now have AP, a new mauler at guard & depth at tackle that provides an extra mauler in 3 tackle power sets. Just last season, the Saints were at the top of the league in most 3 tackle sets used. The ability to play ball control & dominate time of possession will be there this upcoming season.
Play action should be lethal on 1st & 2nd downs while Kamara will provide that aspect of taking a checkdown on 3rd down, when receivers are covered & turning it into a 1st down. We haven't had that since Sproles & PT. Dominate time of possession & you limit the opponent's possessions while keeping your defense fresh.
The key will be our points per possession. If that stat is extremely high, it will place a ton of pressure on opposing offenses to gamble to make plays. When teams gamble, they make mistakes (turnovers). It seems like the game plan heading into the 2017 season is put pressure on every team offensively & let them make the mistakes that will cost them along the way.
This post was edited on 4/30/17 at 11:34 am
Posted on 4/30/17 at 11:38 am to Lester Earl
I think rankins and fairley can be really good and cam is 100% elite
Posted on 4/30/17 at 11:42 am to FightinTigersDammit
F*ck, sorry, got TLDR before I realized...
Brees may be here until he is 45. However, Payton admitting they would have taken Mahomes is like old clocks that do a mini-chime on the half hour. It isn't time yet but it is closer every year. By who was taken and who was left you can see the Saints stuck true to their board.
If you do not have hope and optimism the day after the draft I wonder if you are a whodat. Questions? Yes. More and better pass rush? I dunno. May is the time for every team to have Super Bowl dreams or hope for turnarounds like Dallas last year (4-12 to 13-3).
In May we can dream our group of DEs across from Jordan will compile as many sacks as he does. 12-14 sacks from Fairley and Rankins is not an outrageous expectation. It is the time to expect Bell to improve in coverage and ballhawk Marcus Williams to add some picks. It seems like the focus on Lattimore has been his hammies with little discussion of how truly shutdown he might be. It is not a stretch to believe the INTs could go from a NFL 3rd lowest 9 total to upper quarter NFL at 17 or 18 picks.
If you are aren't excited about Kamara you must have forgotten this O with Reggie or Sproles. I think he will elevate the offense from it's usual Top 5 to the even more dominant variety. I like his toughness. Even though he hasn't carried a big load I think he could do more in the NFL- like Devonta Freeman. I would love to see him develop to take over the lead role eventually.
I would characterize some of the other picks as guys with clear risks attached but having very high ceiling potentials. For me, guys like Anzalone, Hendrickson, and Muhammed are big swings. IF they hit, they will be draft gems like Colston, Nicks, or Stills. If not, more like SJB or Martez Wilson.
Gotta mention the O Line too. Peeps talking like Ramcheck is a down the road investment. Don't be surprised if he takes over RT before THIS season is done. I think the line is headed back to the dominant direction we last saw when Nicks was here.
Along with O Line, the addition of AP makes this the year to guess we will see the most RB carries total since Payton arrived.
I like how they are all-in to win with Brees but still having an eye on the future to have a solid run game and not terrible D when the Breesus final isn't here.
Brees may be here until he is 45. However, Payton admitting they would have taken Mahomes is like old clocks that do a mini-chime on the half hour. It isn't time yet but it is closer every year. By who was taken and who was left you can see the Saints stuck true to their board.
If you do not have hope and optimism the day after the draft I wonder if you are a whodat. Questions? Yes. More and better pass rush? I dunno. May is the time for every team to have Super Bowl dreams or hope for turnarounds like Dallas last year (4-12 to 13-3).
In May we can dream our group of DEs across from Jordan will compile as many sacks as he does. 12-14 sacks from Fairley and Rankins is not an outrageous expectation. It is the time to expect Bell to improve in coverage and ballhawk Marcus Williams to add some picks. It seems like the focus on Lattimore has been his hammies with little discussion of how truly shutdown he might be. It is not a stretch to believe the INTs could go from a NFL 3rd lowest 9 total to upper quarter NFL at 17 or 18 picks.
If you are aren't excited about Kamara you must have forgotten this O with Reggie or Sproles. I think he will elevate the offense from it's usual Top 5 to the even more dominant variety. I like his toughness. Even though he hasn't carried a big load I think he could do more in the NFL- like Devonta Freeman. I would love to see him develop to take over the lead role eventually.
I would characterize some of the other picks as guys with clear risks attached but having very high ceiling potentials. For me, guys like Anzalone, Hendrickson, and Muhammed are big swings. IF they hit, they will be draft gems like Colston, Nicks, or Stills. If not, more like SJB or Martez Wilson.
Gotta mention the O Line too. Peeps talking like Ramcheck is a down the road investment. Don't be surprised if he takes over RT before THIS season is done. I think the line is headed back to the dominant direction we last saw when Nicks was here.
Along with O Line, the addition of AP makes this the year to guess we will see the most RB carries total since Payton arrived.
I like how they are all-in to win with Brees but still having an eye on the future to have a solid run game and not terrible D when the Breesus final isn't here.
Posted on 4/30/17 at 12:10 pm to blueslover
quote:
Peeps talking like Ramcheck is a down the road investment.
I loved this pick. He is not really an investment pick due to the amount of 3 tackle, heavy packages the offense runs. He will get immediate playing time. How soon he takes over for Strief depends upon the timetable of decline with Zach.
quote:
I like how they are all-in to win with Brees but still having an eye on the future to have a solid run game and not terrible D when the Breesus final isn't here
They should have an eye already on Baker Mayfield for next draft. People are going to say Sam Darnold out of USC but barring an awful season by Darnold, he will be the #1 pick next draft.
This post was edited on 4/30/17 at 12:14 pm
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