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Message
Our 2018 first round pick
Posted on 9/21/17 at 9:59 am
Posted on 9/21/17 at 9:59 am
Just curious as to what everyone wants to try to get with this pick or what we need to get with this pick. Demps has traded every first round pick since Davis so it's safe to say he will go the same route here.
A trade involving this pick likely won't happen until the deadline when players become available on the trading block.
With the Cunningham signing it appears we have some good depth at the wing position depending on rotations but I still think we're missing a solid 3 and D option.
So saying that my top targets before the deadline we can acquire by attaching our first to asik are:
Jae Crowder
Demarre Carrol
Kris Middleton
Wilson Chandler
A trade involving this pick likely won't happen until the deadline when players become available on the trading block.
With the Cunningham signing it appears we have some good depth at the wing position depending on rotations but I still think we're missing a solid 3 and D option.
So saying that my top targets before the deadline we can acquire by attaching our first to asik are:
Jae Crowder
Demarre Carrol
Kris Middleton
Wilson Chandler
6
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:05 am to MrPel
You are not getting Kris Middleton or Jae Crowder for a mid first round pick
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:05 am to MrPel
I guess it kind of depends on where we are.
If we are winning games and firmly in playoff contention, I 100% think it will be traded to move a terrible contract and to get a player that can contribute in some way.
If we have tanked big time and are in a freefall, looking to blow it all up...he better not move it.
If we are winning games and firmly in playoff contention, I 100% think it will be traded to move a terrible contract and to get a player that can contribute in some way.
If we have tanked big time and are in a freefall, looking to blow it all up...he better not move it.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:06 am to MrPel
Not to be a debbie downer but the pels #1 could be a lot better than your safe list and cleveland needs crowder and dont want asik.
If pels have injuries to 1.5 starters, ie one starter most of year, besides hill, and feb and march to another starter, they are in the expanded lottery in which all gods chillen have a shot at a top 3 guy.
I realize you are going on past performance. Just say no. Stand pat.
If pels have injuries to 1.5 starters, ie one starter most of year, besides hill, and feb and march to another starter, they are in the expanded lottery in which all gods chillen have a shot at a top 3 guy.
I realize you are going on past performance. Just say no. Stand pat.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:32 am to CelticDog
Possible/Potential IMO:
Wilson Chandler
Jeremy Lin
Trevor Booker
Denzel Valentine
Al-Farouq Aminu
Mario Hezonja
Terrance Ross
Kent Bazemore
Kelly Oubre
Courtney Lee
Wilson Chandler
Jeremy Lin
Trevor Booker
Denzel Valentine
Al-Farouq Aminu
Mario Hezonja
Terrance Ross
Kent Bazemore
Kelly Oubre
Courtney Lee
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:35 am to MrPel
If it is traded without Asik, it can get you a quasi starter on a decent salary. If you include Asik, you are taking back a player who isn't very good or a player on a bad contract, that just isn't as bad as Asik - like a Demarre Carroll.
I would bet on the latter. Dell tries to find a guy who he can use this year and would be easier to dump next year or buy out next year than Asik would be. The one I like is Robin Lopez. I think you can give him away next summer or take back very little, and then avoid lux tax issues. And he can help this year, because I don't want a guy like Diallo in a playoff rotation. Not yet.
I would bet on the latter. Dell tries to find a guy who he can use this year and would be easier to dump next year or buy out next year than Asik would be. The one I like is Robin Lopez. I think you can give him away next summer or take back very little, and then avoid lux tax issues. And he can help this year, because I don't want a guy like Diallo in a playoff rotation. Not yet.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:36 am to MrPel
Here's the tricky part. The Luxury Tax is projecting to go up a little, to around $123 million, but Cousins is getting a $12 million raise. With our current commitments the Pels would be almost $2 million over the tax before it even thought about resigning Rondo/Clark/Cunningham/Crawford/Allen let alone add someone new.
I think they need to turn Asik + Moore + 1st(s) into a $15ish million player that would start like Bledsoe. Then next summer use a 2nd to dump Ajinca like they just did with QPon. You'd have about $8.5 million to bring back 2-3 of Clark/Cunningham/Rondo/Crawford/Allen or add a whoever would be the Swaggy P/CJ Miles in next year's FA. I'm thinking keeping Clark is the highest priority because Moore is gone and then I'd target Rondo next assuming he works out this year and would accept a backup role. You also need to save a minimum deal for a backup center since Asik and Ajinca would both be gone. Diallo will hopefully be ready to contribute but you still need a wide body big.
I think they need to turn Asik + Moore + 1st(s) into a $15ish million player that would start like Bledsoe. Then next summer use a 2nd to dump Ajinca like they just did with QPon. You'd have about $8.5 million to bring back 2-3 of Clark/Cunningham/Rondo/Crawford/Allen or add a whoever would be the Swaggy P/CJ Miles in next year's FA. I'm thinking keeping Clark is the highest priority because Moore is gone and then I'd target Rondo next assuming he works out this year and would accept a backup role. You also need to save a minimum deal for a backup center since Asik and Ajinca would both be gone. Diallo will hopefully be ready to contribute but you still need a wide body big.
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 10:39 am
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:49 am to Crewz
quote:
The one I like is Robin Lopez. I think you can give him away next summer or take back very little
If RoLo is that dumpable this probably would be the best option because it'd give you $14ish million to spend plus you still have Moore. Bring back who makes sense out of Rondo/Clark/Cunningham/Crawford/Allen and then you can still possibly add a wing shooter.
I'd still go after Bledsoe, I just doubt he's a realistic target unless the new rest rules and Phoenix's desire to tank make them sell low.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:51 am to TigerinATL
What would a Bledsoe package look like though? They aint taking Asik. So, Ajinca, Moore and a 1st? I could live with that I guess. Or keep Moore and throw Rondo and Miller in there if they aren't working out. Thats the one I'd prefer.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:54 am to Crewz
quote:
What would a Bledsoe package look like though? They aint taking Asik.
Then it's not happening. As much as I hate the thought of trading another 1st to deal with Asik they just don't have much choice if they aren't ready to be a tax team next year, which I don't think they will be.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:18 am to TigerinATL
quote:
If RoLo is that dumpable this probably would be the best option because it'd give you $14ish million to spend plus you still have Moore
That is a gamble that does not interest me at all. Giving up a first to turn Asik into Rolo is frightening. He seems dumpable, but look at C contracts this summer and next years free agent class is deep. I don't see teams taking on a $15M C for nothing. If he underperforms, then you may have to attach real assets (2019 1st) to dump him in order to sign everyone else.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:24 am to TigerinATL
I'd like Bledsoe, but if we have Rondo and Jrue, then why would you get Bledsoe?
ONly way i'd go after him is if Rondo sucks it up. If Rondo is doing well, then we really have no need for him b/c we can't play Rondo/Jrue/Bledsoe together.
Middleton and Covington are the two guys i would give just about anythign to get, but that ain't happening. Maybe if Diallo starts showing something and he can be part of the trade as well, somethign might work with those two, which i would do in a second.
I agree that Moore needs to go for next years purposes. Really Moore or Solo. We need a better SF, but we can't get one without getting rid of one of them, as well as Asik/Ajinca.
You'd think you could get someone like Dudley or Ross for the first round pick and not much else, but to be honest, if you aren't getting rid of wasted salary with that trade, like Ajinca or Moore, then it's not a good trade for next year.
ONly way i'd go after him is if Rondo sucks it up. If Rondo is doing well, then we really have no need for him b/c we can't play Rondo/Jrue/Bledsoe together.
Middleton and Covington are the two guys i would give just about anythign to get, but that ain't happening. Maybe if Diallo starts showing something and he can be part of the trade as well, somethign might work with those two, which i would do in a second.
I agree that Moore needs to go for next years purposes. Really Moore or Solo. We need a better SF, but we can't get one without getting rid of one of them, as well as Asik/Ajinca.
You'd think you could get someone like Dudley or Ross for the first round pick and not much else, but to be honest, if you aren't getting rid of wasted salary with that trade, like Ajinca or Moore, then it's not a good trade for next year.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:33 am to NOFOX
quote:
look at C contracts this summer and next years free agent class is deep.
9 Teams are currently over the Tax threshold and several more are very close. If half the league is bumping up against the tax then you aren't going to have many teams in a position to take on RoLo and send minimal salary back.
This would be a deadline move though so you'd have a better idea of what the summer will look like then. DeMarre Carroll might be the better way to attack this angle. Roughly the same money and he plays a position where demand outstrips supply, the opposite of the center position. If you can't dump Carrol then you dump Moore to turn his money into keeping Clark and Rondo.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:38 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I'd like Bledsoe, but if we have Rondo and Jrue, then why would you get Bledsoe?
With our assets we have no hope of landing a SF significantly better than Hill, those guys are just too expensive. That means you either target a guard or an Asik dump and with a little overdue luck maybe you can do both.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:46 am to TigerinATL
Thats why you keep the #1 pick.
Also i dont get the issue with going over cap. The contract gives about half to players half to owner. Isnt 47% enough for a couple of seasons. Asik and anjica were mistakes. Time heals all wounds.
Dont compound past errors by giving up #1, which can become 3-sf with complete game.
Also i dont get the issue with going over cap. The contract gives about half to players half to owner. Isnt 47% enough for a couple of seasons. Asik and anjica were mistakes. Time heals all wounds.
Dont compound past errors by giving up #1, which can become 3-sf with complete game.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:46 am to TigerinATL
quote:
This would be a deadline move though so you'd have a better idea of what the summer will look like then. DeMarre Carroll might be the better way to attack this angle. Roughly the same money and he plays a position where demand outstrips supply, the opposite of the center position. If you can't dump Carrol then you dump Moore to turn his money into keeping Clark and Rondo.
The problem is the deep FA class and not a ton of cap room/increase. You will have other teams (tax-payers and star chasers) using picks to dump bad assets to the teams with space, so I just don't see any team clamoring to take on Rolo at $14M+. Likewise, Masai just had to give up a lotto protected 1st and 2nd to dump Carrol. Odds that someone takes him into space for free next summer are better, but still slim.
If you're mainly looking to dump Asik, then I think we need to look to Atlanta. Send him to them for one of or some combination of Bellinelli, Illaysova, or Muscala. They can give you minutes this year and you don't have to worry about whether you can dump them in the offseason.
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 11:57 am
Posted on 9/21/17 at 12:10 pm to CelticDog
quote:
Also i dont get the issue with going over cap.
I believe you mean Tax and there are 2 issues involved.
1) Zach Lowe and Brian Windhorst put out an article this week on teams losing money. A small market team like the Pels becoming a tax paying playoff team = Pels losing money. I don't think Benson will approve of that unless they have a shot at contention. Becoming a 6-8 seed that looks decent is what most of us would be happy with this year and that isn't enough to justify becoming a tax team.
2) If AD/DC works out you'll have to go into the tax eventually. Stretching Asik so you can keep your 1st and avoid the tax one more year could still lead to the Asik mistake costing the team another $15-$30 million because of future tax payments on the stretch amount.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 8:29 pm to TigerinATL
Thanks.
I thought benson is a billionaire. Why care about 15 million if you can right the ship, keep both cousins and ad
I thought benson is a billionaire. Why care about 15 million if you can right the ship, keep both cousins and ad
Posted on 9/22/17 at 12:54 am to stevejones8487
Problem with this pick is timing.
Now it has the biggest value.
Every writer apart from Matt Moore thinks that Pels won't work. Some others doubt.
ESPN writers, Chris Mannix on his last pod with O 'Connor from Ringer are bashing this organisation.
If we are going to trade this pick - why not do it now.
When it has biggest value and lottery potential.
Most of us expect Pels to be play-off bound.
So in February his value will decrease...
Now it has the biggest value.
Every writer apart from Matt Moore thinks that Pels won't work. Some others doubt.
ESPN writers, Chris Mannix on his last pod with O 'Connor from Ringer are bashing this organisation.
If we are going to trade this pick - why not do it now.
When it has biggest value and lottery potential.
Most of us expect Pels to be play-off bound.
So in February his value will decrease...
Posted on 9/22/17 at 5:46 am to pawel
quote:
If we are going to trade this pick - why not do it now.
2 reasons. Nobody wants to trade now, they either think they are going in different directions than they will go or they think they'll get more value for their assets later. Also the Pels don't know what will help them more right now. Will they start slow or have an injury that makes you want to trade for a player, or will they win enough that dumping Asik becomes the focus?
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