re: New Commish wants 2 and Through instead of One and Done

TigerinATL and Corndeaux getting after each other...

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More data = Fewer busts by dumb GMs

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That's not true. Bust ratio has been basically the same since the minimum was created. There will always be busts regardless of data because the draft isn't science.

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Hasheem Thabeet 

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was a 3 year player.

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Strengthening the NCAA also improves its ability to deliver players with built in marketing. 

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Freely admitted that. How does that improve the NBA on court product?

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because "Sweeps Week" the broadcast time that matters, is very different for both

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Night in and night out they are competing for eyeballs. You don't think the NBA would like to have 3 showcase nights on ESPN instead of two?

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would bet the link between the NCAA and NBA increases viewership much more than it cannibalizes it

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I'm doubtful. Most CBB fans aren't NBA fans and vice versa.

Familiar personalities help, sure, but certainly didnt stop fans from following Kobe, KG, LeBron, Kyrie, Rose, etc.

Silver has said he wants this to create a “more competitive draft." WTF does that even mean?

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they need to just do it like baseball and develop the NBADL as a farm system. 

you either come out straight from HS, or you stay in college or overseas 3 years or until you're 21, whichever comes first.

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This morning on the DP Show, Mark Cuban spoke about trying to put this in motion. He did admit that it probably would get shot down.

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That's not true. Bust ratio has been basically the same since the minimum was created.

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Are there any numbers on this? Bust isn't a new term for basketball, so I wouldn't be surprised if you were right.

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How does that improve the NBA on court product?

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Who says it has to improve the on court product to be a benefit to the NBA? The NBA owners care about the bottom line.

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Night in and night out they are competing for eyeballs. You don't think the NBA would like to have 3 showcase nights on ESPN instead of two?

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I think the NBA would LOVE to replace the NCAA with the DLeague. But I don't think they have a clue on how to get there with the NCAA so firmly established. I hear about Euro expansion a few times a year. I don't know if I've ever heard the NBA talk about strengthening the DLeague as a stand alone product. Microsoft would probably love to beat Google or Apple in mobile market share, but most experts expect they will eventually fail and settle for working with their competitors in a way that makes them money (selling Office, One Drive, etc.) If you can't beat em, join em.

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Most CBB fans aren't NBA fans and vice versa.

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CBB fans and NBA fans are like party bases in politics. You win by attracting the uncommitted voters in the middle, in this case, the casual fan. Winning is always a way to attract the casual fan, and a marketable college star is another. How many fans follow the Wizards or Pelicans because of Kentucky? Enough that we played a sold out preseason game there.

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Are there any numbers on this?

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Let me see if I can dig something up. I remember reading an article on this a while ago.

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The NBA owners care about the bottom line. 

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That is certainly true. And that is fine. It does bother me when age limit is used as a prop for increasing quality of play. That is quite a specious argument IMO.

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I think the NBA would LOVE to replace the NCAA with the DLeague

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I think that ties into the bottom line consideration. DLeague isn't going anywhere until a sizable investment is made. Not so sure owners are willing to do it on their own dime- and that's their right

But the NCAA is ripe for the picking at the moment.

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I hear about Euro expansion a few times a year.

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I think Silver talked of that being a division (4 or 5 teams at once) expansion at Sloan.

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You win by attracting the uncommitted voters in the middle, in this case, the casual fan

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That is true. And that is the goal of all of Silver's parity/NFL talk. How do you get that fan to choose the NBA over CBB on a random Tuesday in January? Built in marketing helps, but not so sure it's good enough. UK fans will watch UK before they watch Davis or Wall or Cousins.

Full disclosure:

I'm heavily biased because I have hardly any interest in CBB. If I watch on my own, its to watch future NBA lottery picks.

Ok, so what are the benefits to current D-Leaguers to play in the D -league ( other than being closer to home) rather than going to play in Europe?

Not even sure this is relevant to this thread. The reason I ask is because if the NBA wants to better develop a farm system here, shouldn't the NBA make it more attractive for players to stay in the states?

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they need to just do it like baseball and develop the NBADL as a farm system.

you either come out straight from HS, or you stay in college or overseas 3 years or until you're 21, whichever comes first.

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Ok, so what are the benefits to current D-Leaguers to play in the D -league ( other than being closer to home) rather than going to play in Europe?

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There is also the benefit of being within easy viewing distance of NBA execs and media (see Pierre Jackson), but playing at home is the primary benefit. I'm sure it's crazy enough going from sheltered college environment to the NBA, throw a brand new culture and language barrier into the equation and it's probably pretty unsettling (again see Pierre Jackson).

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if the NBA wants to better develop a farm system here, shouldn't the NBA make it more attractive for players to stay in the states?

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That goes back to what corndeaux was saying, I'm not sure the NBA is ready to invest the amount of money it will take to make that happen. The Blazers just announced they will be ending their single team affiliation with the Idaho Stampede after this season. They basically had paid to control coaching and personnel and didn't feel they were getting their money's worth out of it. One of the guys on the business side of the Stampede didn't like what caring more about development than winning had done to the product fans were buying. LINK

Lots of people love minor league baseball. How do they handle putting out both a good product and being primarily a developmental system where players are shuffled up and down regularly during the season?

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ATL

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Here is the link I was remembering. It's from Ziller a couple of years ago. So it could stand to be updated.

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In the four years before the age minimum was put into place, teams saw decent success in the top 10 in the draft. A rough sorting reveals 21 top-10 picks in the four years (2002-05) as successes, nine as disappointments and 10 as busts. (We used the "disappointments" category as a group for players who weren't quite busts but underperformed their draft position substantially. Think Marvin Williams.)

In the four years after the age minimum's institution -- 2006-09; we left out 2010 because even with 2009, it's hard to make judgments at this point -- teams have picked 22 successes, seven disappointments and 11 busts. (Note: we were liberal in the post-minimum span, listing Andrea Bargnani as a success and guys like Corey Brewer and Randy Foye as disappointments, not busts.)

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LINK

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Has the product truly gotten better with kids coming out from high school or the 1 and dones?

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I would say the NBA is the best it's been since the early 90s. Don't know if age minimum has anything to do with it or if it's just smart rules changes and better coaching. I don't think 19 year olds in the league is hurting the NBA at all.

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I find there is less "team" ball now than there ever was

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NBA defenses have gotten so sophisticated that you aren't beating good teams with ISOs or straight post ups. If anything, it's made coaches and players think smarter about finding the open man. It's opened up new opportunities for guys who were after thoughts. It's a much more diverse game than even 5 years ago.

CBB is stuck in 1999. The basketball is slow, boring, and dumb IMO.

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It has all but destroyed college basketball

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I really don't give a shite. But what is so sacred about CBB that the NBA NEEDS it? Like ATL said, the free marketing is nice. But I don't buy the huge pull, especially in this social media era.

If you like CBB, that is great. I'm a pro ball fan and I don't think CBB is much of a pro player delivery vehicle.

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They take a kid at 17-19 years old, slap millions in his hand, wonder why he acts like a child on and off the court, and why he acts entitled to wanting everything his way on the team.

The NBA was way more interesting before 2000, now it's a league dominated by spoiled shits.

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So there were never spoiled shits or busts or guys who didn't know how to manage their sudden wealth before 2000? Come on.

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But I also believe that if a kid signs with a school, he should not be able to the NBA for at least two years

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I think that is fair, as long as there is a reasonable alternative. I don't like the idea of forcing capable players to toil in the NCAA when they can be earning millions. Nor do I like the idea of setting up the board so guys have to go the college route for 2 years.

And I don't believe $20K a year to play in Idaho or Iowa in the DLeague is much of an alternative.

More cohesion between NBA teams and DLeague to create a true minor league is where this needs to go. Better pay, better infrastructure, etc. But it is hard for owners to pony up that money when the NCAA offers a free, if flawed, vehicle for young players.