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Message
re: Kobe rips AAU basketball
Posted on 1/4/15 at 12:23 pm to Broski
Posted on 1/4/15 at 12:23 pm to Broski
quote:
Impossible
Not impossible. Improbable. The NBA itself needs to take an active interest in these kids at a younger age. AAU is huge, but the NBA is obviously bigger. Were the NBA to come out and endorse a separate system that focuses on being more "NBA ready", it would obviously have the attention of a good portion of the young elite talent. You wouldn't eliminate AAU due to their sheer volume, but they honestly don't need that volume. Getting half of the top 100 prospects would be enough to make a sizable difference, especially if they see it having an impact on getting drafted.
0
Posted on 1/4/15 at 12:35 pm to danman6336
quote:
Kobe is the last of an era, the era before the AAU and Lebrons of the world made everything gross in basketball. Before all the players are best friends and hug and kiss before games and everyone forms super teams nobody hates anyone anymore
I think there are guys like Westbrook, Davis, Harden, Lillard, Noah, Cousins, Rondo ect who don't care about anyone who isn't on their team. Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Melo and those guys in the same draft class are the super friends but you've still got guys who don't do that.
Posted on 1/4/15 at 1:05 pm to LSUFreek
quote:The problem with that is, much of it started with European players coming to the NBA.
But if a rookie big man can only do "fancy" moves entering college or the league, and still can't post up, he thinks that's "crap".
The elimination of the post game. 7 footers handling the ball and shooting threes. That all came to the NBA from Europe.
The U.S. had no problem developing big, fundamentally sound post men for decades, until a generation of kids started to emulate Dirk instead of Duncan.
And now thats being rewarded, and sought out, by NBA teams. Stretch 4's and 5's are the rage. Before Blake Griffin ever fully developed any kind of real post game he had already moved on to long jumpers and 3s. Blake Griffin banging guys around in the post is an MVP-caliber player. Griffin jacking 20 footers and 3's is lovely for guys trying to guard him. And he's having the least efficient season of his career. Who would have imagined layups and dunks from Griffin>>>long twos and 3s.
You read the same thing mentioned about Anthony Davis all the time. "Just wait until he starts shooting 3s." An athletic freak with elite touch around the rim and a really basic post game is constantly asked why he doesn't take 3s, by smart basketball people.
Also zone defenses make it really tough to just dump the ball to a guy in the post, when you can quadruple team a guy if you wanted to. So if you're a young kid watching the NBA, who's getting paid off of footwork and back to the basket work in the post? THE NBA by way of Europe, not AAU ball, is sending those guys to the perimeter to shoot 3s and spread the floor
Posted on 1/4/15 at 2:00 pm to eyeran
quote:
The elimination of the post game. 7 footers handling the ball and shooting threes. That all came to the NBA from Europe.
I don't know about all from Europe.
Kevin Garnett was a paradigm shift. Chris Webber was a paradigm shift. Neither guy was a 3PT shooter and neither guy was watching Dirk, but they changed what a traditional PF body type could do on the court. If you can handle like a guard, then why not be able to shoot like a guard? How many kids were watching them? Were influenced by them? What's more feasible: emulate Shaq's game or emulate Garnett's game?
Guys like Sam Perkins and Robert Horry were prototype stretch bigs before we even had that term. Charles Barkley took 2 3PA/G over his career. Bigs shooting 3s is not solely a European idea.
And you're right that the NBA has pushed that trend with rules changes. I don't think that's a bad thing- ball movement and spacing for superior athletes are things that weren't common even a decade ago. If anything it's a reaction to the thug ball that Pat Riley created in NY during the 90s and not an accommodation to Euro bigs.
Posted on 1/4/15 at 2:40 pm to corndeaux
quote:Thats true. And i've heard Webber say he was really influenced by Magic, growing up. Now i'm sure you have really long kids growing up wanting emulate Durant, which might be on par with trying to be Shaq. So yeah, its not all on the Euros.
Kevin Garnett was a paradigm shift. Chris Webber was a paradigm shift. Neither guy was a 3PT shooter and neither guy was watching Dirk, but they changed what a traditional PF body type could do on the court. If you can handle like a guard, then why not be able to shoot like a guard? How many kids were watching them? Were influenced by them? What's more feasible: emulate Shaq's game or emulate Garnett's game?
And yeah I'd like to see more old school back to the basket guys, but I don't have a problem with where the league is going. Almost all of the league's best big men are jumpshooters. And the one's who aren't, are probably working on it. So "blame" the NBA for that not AAU ball or bad HS coaches.
This post was edited on 1/4/15 at 2:42 pm
Posted on 1/4/15 at 3:19 pm to quail man
quote:
thoughts?
For all the anti-age limit guys, the preeminent preps-to-pros guy slams the main feeder of US prep development. Of course he was in it, but he is right on the money
Posted on 1/5/15 at 7:00 am to eyeran
Yeah, everyone knows AAU is a problem. The solution? Not sure there is one. Even if USAB took over, those handlers would just switch over to be USAB coaches to sell the kids out.
As for post guys now, the rule changes have changed the game more than anything. Guys like Ewing, McHale, etc would be useless players. There's no defense in the NBA anymore. It's just guards and athletic forwards running into the lane, throwing up prayers and getting fouled.
As for fundamentals, I agree that CBB is so damn terrible now. I'd like to see them put in the baseball draft format. Kids can be drafted out of high school, but if they aren't, then they go to college for three years. That would actually attract better college coaches and make for a better brand of basketball. Rather than having a roster of one and dines that no one will follow into the NBA.
As for post guys now, the rule changes have changed the game more than anything. Guys like Ewing, McHale, etc would be useless players. There's no defense in the NBA anymore. It's just guards and athletic forwards running into the lane, throwing up prayers and getting fouled.
As for fundamentals, I agree that CBB is so damn terrible now. I'd like to see them put in the baseball draft format. Kids can be drafted out of high school, but if they aren't, then they go to college for three years. That would actually attract better college coaches and make for a better brand of basketball. Rather than having a roster of one and dines that no one will follow into the NBA.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 9:41 am to eyeran
quote:
Almost all of the league's best big men are jumpshooters. And the one's who aren't, are probably working on it.
Yeah. It's interesting because Karl Malone was vocal about how much he loves 4s facing up. About how much pressure it puts on a defense. Rare to see an old guy praise the new guys, but also a good point.
That said, Davis turning into a jump shooter like Aldridge would be a tragedy. I think he probably takes too many already.
quote:
That would actually attract better college coaches and make for a better brand of basketball. Rather than having a roster of one and dines that no one will follow into the NBA.
Not too sure about that. The problem with CBB is that the infrastructure isn't there to develop pro players. 20 hrs (or whatever the limit is) of practice a week? 35 total games? Add to that coaches who care about winning to secure their jobs and their big dollar salaries just as much, if not more than, as developing pros. That set up plus a game that is played quite differently than NBA ball and I'm not sure how much pro skills development happens. Why make a talented player play inferior ball for a longer period of time?
Clearly some guys need NCAA experience and benefit from it, but I bet keeping guys in school longer just means 22 year olds with a steep learning curve instead of 19 or 20 year olds.
And remember, USAB is the current world champion at every level of international basketball. They just won the senior World Championships, easily, with a B or C squad. Things to be improved, for sure, but there's not exactly a problem with development right now.
This post was edited on 1/5/15 at 9:43 am
Posted on 1/5/15 at 9:57 am to corndeaux
quote:
Why make a talented player play inferior ball for a longer period of time?
It would be hard for the DLeague to compete with March Madness even if the better players started going to the DLeague rather than college. The interest in CBB is due in large part to an entrenched history. People don't want to see random teenagers win, they want to see the school they went to or grew up rooting for win. that's just something the DLeague won't be able to overcome anytime soon which may mean it's not economically viable unless you view it as a development cost.
There also is the built in marketing. How many people around here started following the NBA because of Shaq? I'd imagine more than a few. Will the star players with the Baton Rougarous be the same draw? Doubtful. I think a pure DLeague based system is better for #basketballreasons, but we know those are secondary concerns. What they probably should do rather than worrying about one and done is strengthen the DLeague and add more rounds to the draft. It'd be better for guys like Russ and Withey to be playing every night using the same system the parent team uses. Ajinca has admitted that he was lazy and entitled his first go round in the NBA, maybe if he spent his rookie year in the DLeague he'd have learned his lesson sooner.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 10:27 am to TigerinATL
I don't get why people talk bad about AAU but speak highly of past players.
Players in the past used to play at playgrounds. It's not like they were learning fundamentals there...
Players in the past used to play at playgrounds. It's not like they were learning fundamentals there...
Posted on 1/5/15 at 10:59 am to PrimeTime Money
Davis is a pretty well-rounded, team-oriented player and I'm pretty sure he came up through AAU. Honestly, US bigs are getting much more skilled now than they were in the 80s and 90s. Today's game and rules are more suited to well-rounded bigs than the simply round bigs of the 80s and 90s.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 11:20 am to eyeran
quote:
Also zone defenses make it really tough to just dump the ball to a guy in the post, when you can quadruple team a guy if you wanted to
This has as much to do with it as anything. Zone changed the NBA
Posted on 1/5/15 at 2:49 pm to TigerinATL
Yeah. There is no easy solution or answer. College system and March Madness are ingrained parts of our culture. They aren't going anywhere, and they shouldn't have to disappear, even if it is a flawed way of producing pro basketball players.
I really like your idea about extending the draft and turning it into a real minor league. Like you say, #basketballreasons are a secondary concern. I'm not sure who steps up to pay the tab.
I really like your idea about extending the draft and turning it into a real minor league. Like you say, #basketballreasons are a secondary concern. I'm not sure who steps up to pay the tab.
This post was edited on 1/5/15 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:03 pm to corndeaux
quote:
I'm not sure who steps up to pay the tab.
Maybe the players? The owners smoothing proposal was apparently designed to take money out of the cap (but not away from the players) to keep individual salaries down. Maybe they can take that same principle but use it in a way that the union would go for. Take $3-5 million from the new TV money cap increase, increase the number of roster spots and require a number of DLeague assignments per team. Why would the players go for it? It'd be a bit of a hard sell with a high paid SuperStar as union president, but I have to think they'd see some value in creating more NBA jobs and a legit alternative to Euroleague.
Posted on 1/5/15 at 3:28 pm to TigerinATL
For sure they have to give up some of their $, but I doubt they do that without owners tossing some $ in too. $ is the big problem: why pay for something that is good enough and free?
Here's an idea from HP.com about creating an NBA Academy that houses players for all teams for grades 9-12. Interesting idea, I doubt we ever see anything like it though.
LINK
Here's an idea from HP.com about creating an NBA Academy that houses players for all teams for grades 9-12. Interesting idea, I doubt we ever see anything like it though.
LINK
Posted on 1/5/15 at 5:40 pm to Suntiger
quote:
Guys like Ewing, McHale, etc would be useless players
Ewing is one of, if not the best, shooting center ever. Coming in today's game, dude would be shooting threes too.
ETA: Yao is right up there with him.
This post was edited on 1/5/15 at 5:42 pm
Posted on 1/7/15 at 7:14 am to corndeaux
Here's another read from SBNation on AAU system.
Kobe Brings 3 Misconceptions About AUU into Focus
Kobe Brings 3 Misconceptions About AUU into Focus
quote:
1. "AAU ball" is not all encompassing
quote:
2. America is producing a ton of great young basketball players -- and it's not all athleticism
quote:
3. The problems with grassroots ball extend beyond the lack of teaching
Posted on 1/7/15 at 7:30 am to corndeaux
quote:
You only need to know about the bizarre recruiting stories of Antonio Blakeney and Skal Labissiere over to last six months to know Bryant has a point.
What's bizarre about Blakeney's recruitment?
ETA - Never mind, I found it. They are assuming he decommitted from Louisville because it isn't a Nike school.
This post was edited on 1/7/15 at 7:35 am
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