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re: Is Kobe a team killer?

Posted on 11/13/14 at 12:10 pm to
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32409 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 12:10 pm to
Well, he did kill the best team that he ever played for.
Posted by AlexLSU
Member since Jan 2005
25341 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 12:21 pm to
quote:

He missed 18 shots. A missed shot hurts your team almost as much as a turnover


Well he's an old shooting guard on a team with zero other offensive threats. Do you honestly expect him to shoot well on THIS team when he's a career 45% shooter? He's been a long jumpshooter for years, but now he doesn't have any other offensive threats to create easy shots for him.

I love that people are pointing at Kobe as the issue with this team when he's literally the only guy on the roster that is above average at his position. The narrative is that Kobe shoots too much and is hurting his team, but no one wants to focus on Lin's inability to play defense. Or the fact that Boozer, an undersized, jumpshooting big, is your next best offensive option. Or that journeymen like Xavier Henry and Ronnie Price are the guys you rely on for bench production.

I also think the "well anyone could lead the league in scoring with that many shots" argument is incredibly stupid (not to suggest you made the argument). There's very few guys that can consistently get a good look night in and night out without teammates creating for them. Most would consider Harden to be the best SG in the league, but he's shooting under 40% this year IN HIS PRIME. He's averaging 25ppg largely because he gets to the foul line, and he has another legit superstar to free up space for him to operate. He's missed 15 and 16 shots in consecutive games on a really good team. Kobe is averaging 28ppg on 39% shooting; Harden averages 25ppg on 39% shooting.
Posted by AlexLSU
Member since Jan 2005
25341 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 12:29 pm to
quote:

Well, he did kill the best team that he ever played for.


Idiocy perpetuated by dudes without a clue.

LINK

LINK

Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
38700 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 12:34 pm to
i have nothing but respect and admiration for kobe's game, and i am a 100% laker-hater. that game they won 2 yrs ago in the arena where they came back from a 20pt deficit was was on the most amazing individual efforts i've ever seen in sports. once it was over i wasnt even upset, just glad to have seen it in person

last night, the only reason the game went to the end is that scott didnt take kobe out. until he did, the game was in jeopardy. kobe has a gravitational pull around him that is utterly rare

anyone who cant appreciate what he has done, and what he is doing now, at his age, on that team, with the injuries he's overcome, is just being obtuse
Posted by KindaRaw
Member since Jun 2014
3963 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 12:36 pm to
Dude was 5-11 from beyond the arc. His team wasn't really helping him all that much. Most of the shots he made were well defended, but to call Kobe a team killer is obnoxious and not true at all. Lakers have zero talent besides him and Hill. Wesley Johnson is straight garbage as well as their other guards.
Posted by Gtothemoney
Da North Shore
Member since Sep 2012
17715 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 12:37 pm to
quote:

You can not quantify his worth through a NBA contract


It's well documented the obsession Kobe has with getting to Michael's 6 rings. It's what makes him the Black Mamba. There's no way on God's green earth this team has a chance on winning another championship with Kobe making 25 million this year, or next.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32409 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 12:43 pm to
The team doesn't suck because of Kobe, but he isn't helping much either. The guy has always needed an All-Star big man to help carry his teams.
Posted by Gtothemoney
Da North Shore
Member since Sep 2012
17715 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 12:50 pm to
Now it's obvious his motivation is to move up in the all time scoring leaders. It's boderline pitiful.
Posted by AlexLSU
Member since Jan 2005
25341 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 1:07 pm to
quote:

The team doesn't suck because of Kobe, but he isn't helping much either


Very few players in the NBA would make a big difference on this team, especially perimeter players. Someone like Lebron could have improved this team by himself years ago ala those shitty Cavs teams, but I don't think he's even prepared to put up with this type of incompetence from teammates at this stage in his career. Do you think Steph Curry takes this team out of the bottom three in the West? I don't. I don't think Harden does either. Kobe does not have a peer at his position that would improve this team to the point where anyone would notice. There's simply too many bad players.

quote:

quote:

The guy has always needed an All-Star big man to help carry his teams.



Yawn at this equally predictable and terrible argument. How many titles did Shaq win without an All-Star guard? What about MJ without Pippen? Lebron without Wade/Bosh? There's been plenty of NBA teams with stars that never won a title, let alone five of them with two different casts.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32409 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 1:18 pm to
I think some of those players could bring the team to the playoffs. Pippen made the playoffs without Jordan. Kobe doesn't even make the playoffs without an all star big man.
Posted by AlexLSU
Member since Jan 2005
25341 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 1:58 pm to
quote:

I think some of those players could bring the team to the playoffs.


This Lakers team? Jordan isn't bringing this Lakers team to the playoffs in the West.

quote:

Kobe doesn't even make the playoffs without an all star big man.


Well that's simply not true. Kobe was the only all-star on the Lakers for at least two seasons during the Pau/Bynum/Odom era. He also led the 06 and 07 teams to the playoffs with a bunch of scrubs. It's not his fault that he played with another great player all the other years, and it's certainly not like he squandered the talent. Dude won five titles and played in seven NBA Finals.
Posted by Galactic Inquisitor
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
15169 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

AlexLSU


You were one of those figs at the SKC cheering for the Black Mambo, weren't you?
Posted by AlexLSU
Member since Jan 2005
25341 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 2:21 pm to
quote:

You were one of those figs at the SKC cheering for the Black Mambo, weren't you?


1. Your dad is a fig

2. You are a fig

3. I cheer for both teams but definitely wanted the Lakers win. I don't wear L.A. colors in friendly confines though as that's a very figgy move.
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
30098 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 2:29 pm to
quote:

Well that's simply not true. Kobe was the only all-star on the Lakers for at least two seasons during the Pau/Bynum/Odom era. He also led the 06 and 07 teams to the playoffs with a bunch of scrubs. It's not his fault that he played with another great player all the other years, and it's certainly not like he squandered the talent. Dude won five titles and played in seven NBA Finals.



Lets be honest, Kobe did nothing without a big. Most champs need a 2nd star. That's not a dig on him, but that's giving the credit where its deserved -> Pau Gasol.

04-05: New coach, no shaq, 34-48. Odom with 15/10
05-06: Phil, 45-37 (lost to phoenix). Odom with 15/9
06-07: Phil, 42-40 (lost to phoenix). Odom with 16/10, Bynum with 8/6
07-08: Phil, 57-25 (lost to Boston). Pau 19/8, Odom 14/11, Bynum injured (13/10)
08-09: Phil, 65-17 (won it all). Pau 19/10, Odom 11/8, and Bynum 14/8.

No Pau, no rings after Shaq.
This post was edited on 11/13/14 at 2:30 pm
Posted by D011ahbi11
Member since Jun 2007
13618 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 2:31 pm to
Carrying Luke Walton, Lamar Odom, Smush Parker and Kwame Brown to the playoffs is no small feat.
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
30098 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 2:33 pm to
quote:

Carrying Luke Walton, Lamar Odom, Smush Parker and Kwame Brown to the playoffs is no small feat.



One of those doesn't belong. When I say nothing, it means nothing past the 1st round playoffs.
This post was edited on 11/13/14 at 2:34 pm
Posted by D011ahbi11
Member since Jun 2007
13618 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 2:34 pm to
Lamar Odom? I was just listing the starting 5.
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
30098 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 2:35 pm to
quote:

Lamar Odom? I was just listing the starting 5.



I mean, you did say he carried Lamar Odom. Odom wasn't dead weight like the other 3.
Posted by D011ahbi11
Member since Jun 2007
13618 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 2:41 pm to
I know, I was just listing the rest of the starting 5.
This post was edited on 11/13/14 at 2:42 pm
Posted by AlexLSU
Member since Jan 2005
25341 posts
Posted on 11/13/14 at 3:05 pm to
quote:

Lets be honest, Kobe did nothing without a big. Most champs need a 2nd star. That's not a dig on him, but that's giving the credit where its deserved -> Pau Gasol.


My problem is that you can't win without another talented player, or a collection of talented players, on a team. No one is saying Kobe won five rings by himself, but to say that he did nothing without another star or "needs" another star is ridiculous for two reasons. First, Gasol, Bynum and Odom needed Kobe more than Kobe needed them. Kobe is still producing at an elite level, while Bynum and Odom are gonna be pawning their championship rings in a few years to make ends meet. Gasol is still very good, but he doesn't have to carry a team.

Second, EVERY star that wins a title has a lot of help. Whether it's another star player like Jordan/Pippen, Kobe/Shaq, Lebron/Wade, or teams with great role players and depth like 2014 SA, 2011 DAL, and 2004 Detroit, you ain't winning shite in the NBA without help.

quote:

No Pau, no rings after Shaq.


If Pau wins another, he has Rose. Shaq's one that he got in Miami was with Wade (MVP of that series). I hate attempts to discredit NBA titles because teams had good players. Show me an NBA team that won a title with scrubs, and I'll buy into this line of thinking
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