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re: I'm not sure how this team improves via trade
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:32 am to MrBarry
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:32 am to MrBarry
quote:We talk a lot about that mythical shooting center on Pels Talk, but there's a value in having a vertical spacer at the 5 in the dunker spot when Zion has the ball.
I just don't see how Jarrett Allen makes us better. He has zero offense.
quote:By no means am I saying he has some arsenal of post moves or anything like that, but he's averaging 15ppg in 30 minutes on 67% shooting which means, however he's doing it, he can get the ball in the hole so he's not a zero on offense, or even close to it.
He has zero offense. There are other defenders out there that have no offense that are cheaper, and when i say cheaper, i mean salary wise. I don't care about giving up picks to improve.
There may be better fits and ways to utilize trade assets, but I think Allen would be fine at the 5 with the Pels.
This post was edited on 1/8/24 at 10:34 am
2
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:34 am to ghost2most
quote:
The question is, what are you willing to give up for him?
You push your Lakers and Bucks picks in, keeping all your own picks. Then salary match with BI, Zion, TM3, Herb, Hawk, and CJ off the table.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:43 am to shel311
quote:
We talk a lot about that mythical shooting center on Pels Talk, but there's a value in having a vertical spacer at the 5 in the dunker spot when Zion has the ball.
Jarrett Allen is who I hoped Jaxson turned into be. In theory, Allen is a great fit next to Zion. I'd love to see Zion with a true rim runner.
But factoring in salary, I don't think he gives you enough of an upgrade over Jonas (assuming he's the main piece you move) to make the move. He fits better and the team is probably a little better, but I feel like 20 mil a year for the next couple of years makes it a lot tougher on your decision making going forward. Maybe not though and he is playing at an all-star level right now honestly so maybe he makes you better than I think he does.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:44 am to shel311
quote:
There may be better fits and ways to utilize trade assets, but I think Allen would be fine at the 5 with the Pels.
The Cavs are slightly better defensively when he's not in the lineup this year.
Last year he had a -.5 DRtg difference off the court compared to on, so bascially he made no difference to their defense.
Last year in the playoffs the Cavs were a +18.9 DRtg better with him on the bench losing 4-1 to the Knicks.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 10:46 am to MrBarry
quote:
Would you trade Hawkins to get back Mark Williams or Walker Kessler?
I would trade Hawkins and multiple 1sts for Kessler, but I doubt that Utah would.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:03 am to mhasen1
you don't trade a shooter like hawkins we need spacing
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:11 am to MrBarry
quote:I'm curious on how you reconcile this data with also saying Allen is a zero on offense but the offense has been worse 6 straight seasons when he's off the court
The Cavs are slightly better defensively when he's not in the lineup this year.
Last year he had a -.5 DRtg difference off the court compared to on, so bascially he made no difference to their defense.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:11 am to tigersmanager
quote:You do very quickly when the proposed trade is getting an elite rim protector.
you don't trade a shooter like hawkins we need spacing
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:20 am to tigersmanager
quote:
you don't trade a shooter like hawkins we need spacing
and he's providing that from the bench?
I don't want to trade Hawkins either, but if we feel Kessler is a differnce maker then you have to give up pieces you might really like, like Hawkins.
And i think a 2024 1st and Hawkins is a lot to give up for Kessler.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:20 am to shel311
quote:
If we don't think we can comfortably beat every team in a playoff series, we should be exploring ways to improve the team.
I mean I agree but I still think the main MO of this front office is to see a playoff run with our current roster (healthy) so they can better see what they’ll need. I think it’s kind of obvious (Lauri) but I don’t think they make a big move until next year
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:23 am to shel311
quote:
I'm curious on how you reconcile this data with also saying Allen is a zero on offense but the offense has been worse 6 straight seasons when he's off the court
Nice catch.
I can't.
WHat i will say is i could really care less about either stat. WHat you do in the playoffs is what matters. But i did find it odd that he isnt' a more impactful defender to his team. Walker Kessler's on/off stats are what you'd expect, as he has a big impact on the defense.
Myles Turner has great defensive on/off stats in the regular season, yet he was terrible in the playoffs way back when.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:25 am to WicKed WayZ
quote:You may be correct in that this is what they're doing, but I would disagree with this route forward.
I mean I agree but I still think the main MO of this front office is to see a playoff run with our current roster (healthy) so they can better see what they’ll need
Due to injuries, we've already wasted 2 years of our window. I'd rather not use up another year as a fact finding year. Given this team and our 2 best players, we can find out what we need while BI/Zion have a healthy season. We can go out and get the perfect pieces to complement them, and then BI and/or Zion can miss the bulk of the next 2 seasons and it's all a wash.
Zion is in year 5, BI is in year 8. It's time now, it's wayyyy past time unfortunately.
If they're healthy and we are a top 5 type seed at the deadline, we should be to explore improving immediately IMO.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:27 am to MrBarry
I'm not sure what the Jazz are looking for.
They have 14 unprotected 1sts from 2025-2029.
They don't need more 1sts. They already have too many.
You would think they would be buying, not selling.
They have 14 unprotected 1sts from 2025-2029.
They don't need more 1sts. They already have too many.
You would think they would be buying, not selling.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:29 am to mhasen1
quote:
I would trade Hawkins and multiple 1sts for Kessler, but I doubt that Utah would.
Umm, yes they would
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:29 am to MrBarry
quote:
Would you trade Hawkins to get back Mark Williams or Walker Kessler? I wouldn't want to, but i'd be open to it.
Lol. Will never happen. Maybe years later if Hawkins turns into something.
I’d probably think about seeing if you could trade Nance for a more defensive big that’s an improvement. Not sure who is out there we could get.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:29 am to MrBarry
I wonder if it's due to having 2 solid big defenders with Mobley. Granted, the defense is much worse this season when Mobley is off but going back the previous 2 seasons, it's eerily similar to Allen where the defense is slightly worse both seasons when Mobley is off.
I wonder if they're almost the same level of good with either 1 in as they are with both in. That's my best guess.
I wonder if they're almost the same level of good with either 1 in as they are with both in. That's my best guess.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:29 am to shel311
Dyson/JV/multiple picks is really our only shot at upgrading the team in a meaningful way. Hawkins should be off limits.
Kira for a ham sandwich is probably what we will see.
Kira for a ham sandwich is probably what we will see.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:30 am to Solo
You're not getting anything worthwhile out of that package.
This post was edited on 1/8/24 at 11:31 am
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:31 am to Solo
quote:Nah, only stars and clear cut budding stars are off limits.
Hawkins should be off limits.
I love Hawkins, but he should not be untouchable.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 11:32 am to supe12sta12z
quote:Dyson+multiple 1sts should net something worthwhile.
You're not getting anything worthwhile out of that package.
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